You don't reign on network size when you're talking strictly digital network. Cingular has the largest digital voice and data network in America. Now if you consider the analog towers on Verizon's network that fills those few gaping holes in the west...then Verizon reigns. But what good will that get them when analog is phased out?

Those towers will get upgraded as part of VZW's multi-billion dollar annual upgrade budget.

I've seen e-mails announcing about 10 in the last week upgraded or added in our area (large multi-state region).

Here's the thing though. People still want the analog part of our tri-mode service, though most can't recall the last time they found an analog signal. In fact, most have never found an analog signal, even though they think they need that part of a tri-mode phone. In our area, there's only a small sliver of analog within 40 miles, and it's in a national park on top of a mountain.

In our area, analog is almost completely (99$) overed by digital VZW towers or partner towers, and no one really gets analog anymore. T-Mobile has a very limited signal, especially as you get farther awat from the nearest interstate. In one are...
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epik said:
....
Here's the thing though. People still want the analog part of our tri-mode service, though most can't recall the last time they found an analog signal. In fact, most have never found an analog signal, even though they think they need that part of a tri-mode phone. In our area, there's only a small sliver of analog within 40 miles, and it's in a national park on top of a mountain.

Better safe then sorry!

wasnt that consumer reports about 1 and a half years ago?

PLease provide me with an issue that states Cingular is better. I want to see it in writing. Do not tell me that you heard it on some TV show. Give me references that I can look up.

It's less than 6 months old... go find a back issue...

i am looking at taht issue from Feb '04
NOWHERE does it say anything that could even resemble a remark calling Cingular best.

There have been 2 CR reports ion cellular companies. the 1st did 8 cities that VZW ranked #1 in each, and the most recent did 12 cities once again having VZW the best in each. The issue is in my lap right now!!!
Cingular did not even get 2nd in ANY MARKET TESTED...NOT ONE!!!!! Get THE FACTS STRAIGHT GUYS!!!

OMG SHUT UP.

If I hear "GET THE FACTS STRAIGHT" one more time i'm gonna go postal.

"get the facts straight" "no YOU get the facts straight" that's all I hear, back and forth, bakc and forth back and forth.


GEEZ.

isn't that more than 6 months old? i said less than 6 months...

It's clear that Cain prefers his Cingular fiction to actual wireless fact.

It was done in February.

Are you trying to say that Cingular somehow circumvented an overwhelming majority in less than a year?

That's certainly not what your network or quarterly reports are showing, bud.

Pretty amazing I looked back through the last months just to give you the benefit of the doubt and there is nothing that says Cingular has the best netowrk. Don't make things up man. Deal with it Cingular has a larger customer base, for now, but they still do not have the best service.

according to YOU... I read the article... I'll find it for ya... I DON'T make stuff up.

It's really irrevelant however... CDMA has a 13 percent market share.... so UNLESS all of the GSM carriers switch to cdma, cdma's future is THIN. It's just like the "technically superior" betamax vs. vhs... we know who won that battle.

This is the USA. What the rest of the world uses does not matter. Especially now that you will begin to see CDMA/GSM phones for the small % of Americans who need to travel oversees.
Please do find the article, I would love to read it. I did not see it in Consumer Reports anywhere, but on occasion I have been know to make a mistake, albeit not very often.

When I go overseas, I find it easy and much cheaper to rent a phone to use while there. Typically, I can rent a phone for $1 per day, local calls are approximately 19 cents per minute and it costs around 38 cents a minute to call back to the States. All incoming calls are free. This is substantially less cost than using a U.S. GSM phone in Europe (without buying a local Sim card, which, in effect, makes it a new phone, anyway) and is also substantially less cost than using one of the new Verizon CDMA/GSM phones or participating in Verizon's international caller program.

it DOES actually matter... MOST of the wireless technology developers use GSM. Most of the developers are promoting GSM. If you want the best technological advances in ANY technology, you choose the technology with the most developers.

Wrong!! Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. VHS over beta is a perfect example of the ignorance of the masses overcome a better technology!!

Cain, with all due respect, you are a marketting guy with an interest in wireless. You are not an engineer. And while you argue very pursuasivly to the lesser informed, you yourself have yet to produce one shred of evidence as to why you consider GSM better than CDMA other than "it's what the rest of the world uses", and comments like, "It's just a fact. Cingular GSM is better." You have yet to point to one switch statistic for Access Completion Rates, Network capacity and laoding conditions, Drop Call Rates. Nothing.

I understand that you have some personal purversion for Cingular, but your presentat...
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blah blah blah! none of that really matters. what matters is accessibilty. verizon has the least stores. cingular has tons of dealers. cingular is willing to work with the dealers. customers will listen to the dealers when thay say "why not go with the largest company in the U.S.?" the largest company right now is Cingular.

btw...i don't work for cingular 😁

Huh if you knew anything you would know that VZW has the largest corporate owned retail distribution channel of any carrier. VZW is also much more strict about allowing dealers to resell there service, but as of now VZW has Radio Shack and Best Buy as dealers and VZW owned and operated kiosks inside of Circuit City Stores along with many other dealers around the country. You are always better off selling your services yourself instead of outsourcing it, leads to far more customer satisfaction, and far less customer misinformation.

less customer misinformation? what are you living in a box? those people in radio shack best buy and circuit city don't know jack! independent stores know what the hell they are doing! if consumers want to get a cell phone, they will go to a professional store. if they want a battery, they can go to the afore mentioned stores!

First off, the Circuit City kiosks are owned and operated by Verizon Wireless. Secondly, the number of authorized agents that Cingular has is ridiculous, because every agent has different rules, different prices. I know, I used to work for a Cingular agent. They don't take payments, they don't have tech support, you get nothing unless your a payable sale. Especially in the Upstate New York area. There is one corporate store per 10-15 agents. Cingular's distribution definately needs to be reworked, I don't think agents should be used period, for anyone. Cingular agents are, except for a rare exception, horrible. The Verizon agents, same thing. Not to mention agents tend to rip people off, they sell used phones for cash and pocket the money (I...
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First off, telling everyone that the CC kioshs are owned and operated by vzw is stupid because we all know how unexperienced the worker there are. you might as well go to radio shack. Secondly, how do you know they have different rules? don't slander if you don't know what you're talking about. i know you didn't work for any Cingular dealer! if you did, you would know how stupid you are for saying something without the proper infomation. Cingular does have Tech Support, and they take payments! double check your "ideas" before you say something!

Your opinions on VZW Circuit City employees is unbased, at least in my area. Not only are the new CC stores in our area staffed with experienced VZW employees, they are also staffed with people (such as myself) who came from another industry selling something 100 times harder to sell. Sure, there are a couple who don't know enough - yet - but for the most part, I'd say VZW did a good job on mixing up its new CC store staff.

Epik

i'll give you that. i don't know all the vz workers at the CC store. but, like you said, in your area. the ones in my area are a bunch of morons.

Yeah, I can't do much but hope the dolts get weeded out quickly. Of the four CCs in the nearby area, we've already gotten rid of five people like that. I'm working with the sixth right now, though he doesn't know it yet.

Epik

Independent stores and reps, most of them, are great. There are a few rotten apples in the bunch that cause more damage than a thousand direct or indirect dealers. Those are the dealers that VZW has had to get midieval on. Usually, the biggest problem indirect dealers cause is with in-house insurrance. And the extra rebate is annoying, too, but only an inconvenience.

And I beg to differ on the statement that "those people in... circuit city don't know jack!" I work for VZW, and I work inside a Circuit City now. My coworkers who work in the direct stores have it easy. Customers come to them, and they've already picked Verizon (or they likely wouldn't be there). I have to actually sell Verizon and its services, just as much as any i...
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you think its pressure to sell one thing? give me a freakin break! you don't have to worry about fraud! you don't have to worry about chargebacks (do you even know what that is?) on top of that I'm under pressure to sell phones! if you haven't done retail, you don't know jack!

And the size, you're too small. Talk to me when you get to the big leagues!

Protel

I don't. I think it's easy. I used to sell over 20,000 SKUs. I don't think it's pressure on me to sell out of about 150 SKUs. My point was obviously not clear enough for you. Here it is: I have about half the stock of the nearest direct store (of which I am also), which is a lot more than it sounds. But I have to actually sell Verizon phones and service - the other store in town doesn't. A sales rep only needs to stand there to get a customer, and then they need to have the skills to sell them on enhanced services.

Of course I deal with chargebacks. But I try harder to do the customer right from the beginning to keep from having chargebacks. Why wouldn't I have to deal with chargebacks? I work for Verizon.

Fraud? Hell, I've ...
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interesting stat.....93% of post-paid accounts with VZW are done so through our direct channels.....Cingular not so much.

WOW... I wouldn't have ever thought it was that high. Verizon loves to screw us Agents!! They do whatever they can do get the customers coming to corporate stores.

yeah...like offering customer "every 2". it that term right?

NE2.. New Every 2.

thx....but don't you agree?

Yes, I do. New Every 2 has been a thorn to the indirect channel since it started.

i love ne2

how about the buy one get one free deal on-line?

What about it? We can usually do those or come pretty close. They usually give us spiffs so we can make up the difference. I have just recently learned there are some agents that appartnely don't take advantage of the spiffs. I guess they just keep the extra money for themselves and not pass the savings along to the customer.

You hit the nail on the head there. NE2 can be redeemed through "participating" indirects. Your store is the ones that have decided not to honor it and the things that are tied to it. On the BOGO, most indirect stores are responsible for their own inventories, because they buy their equipment directly through the manufacturer and not from VZW. That is why most indirects have to do their own warranty work/exchanges.

At least to my understanding anyways.

thank GOD Cingular doesn't or we dealers would be out of business! Go Cingular!!

Thank God VZW deals with direct more often then not. That ensures a much higher cust satisfaction rate which you can clearly see in our industry leading churn rate!

wake up crack head! what's better...to show a customer how to use their phone or to tell them over the phone?

I beleive he is refering to the fact that our direct stores are REQUIRED to go over things like the first bill, contract, and all the other aspects of getting a new cell phone. You can say all you want to about how indirects do the samething but any CS person can tell you most of the time a customer is calling in to complain about something they were not told about their agreement was done at an indirect location. 8 times out of 10 to be exact in my recent trackings.

That is what he is refering to.

Indirect is supposed to do those things. A copy of what their first bill will looks like prints out with the contract. We also have to get the customer signature on the V-List which explains their first bill, minutes, calling plan, and other things.

Exactly, indirects are supposed to. What actually happens though is something different. Am I saying all indirect agents? Nope, by no means. If it were all indirects I would be sooooooooooooo swamped. However it does happen more often with indirects it seems than with directs. That's all I am saying.

Sorry bro... My best friend is an engineer here at cingular... and I have been interested in the technical aspect of it I have read all of the white papers on different technologies. I have offered specific prro as to why GSM is technically better than CDMA. It's all over this forum for the last 6 months. I have offered SCIENTIFIC proof so many times, it is getting boring. About once a month someone like you comes on and says "where's the proof?" after the proof was given AGAIN.
It's getting boring.... I've offered proof to you several times as well... Here's the one I've noted often... CDMA produces more WARBLE than GSM causing digital distortion. That's a FACT. Look it UP. I'm tired of having to look stuff up because you guys can't do i...
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The thing you always seem to miss is that it is in the implementation. GSM "may" be a better technology, but is it the "best" technology? Let's use the big one you Cingular reps have used to turn the tables in the debates in this forum for this one. VZW markets we have America's Best, Most Reliable Network. You Cingular people always scream "Where is the proof?" Well, just like you are now posting, if VZW didn't have the best, most reliable network in America then Cingular would be all over us in court.

Example: Linux/Unix is reportedly "better" than Windows, however who holds most of the cards? What is the overhelming majority of PCs shipped with?

So by your own words(Cingular reps that is), Cingular has a better technology, but they ...
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Not too mention most of your arguement it based on what the world uses. 78% of the world does not mean 78% of the US...CDMA is soaring faster and faster here in the US, that much you have to admit, especially since it has been listed in links that you yourself have posted on here. And I'm sure if the growth we having going on continues to grow you might actually see some company switch to CDMA instead!!!

CainMarko said:
Sorry bro... My best friend is an engineer here at cingular... and I have been interested in the technical aspect of it I have read all of the white papers on different technologies. I have offered specific prro as to why GSM is technically better than CDMA. It's all over this forum for the last 6 months. I have offered SCIENTIFIC proof so many times, it is getting boring. About once a month someone like you comes on and says "where's the proof?" after the proof was given AGAIN.
It's getting boring.... I've offered proof to you several times as well... Here's the one I've noted often... CDMA produces more WARBLE than GSM causing digital distortion. That's a FACT. Look it UP. I'm tired of having to look

...
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"Warble" does not CAUSE distortion!! Warble IS distortion. "Warble" is the audible distortion you hear in a low signal environment. It occurs when your Frame Error Rate (or, in GSM World, it's Bit Error Rate) starts to increase such that whole frames of speach are not able to be demodulated correctly, and so the digital decoder will miss small fragments of the speach pattern, creating a slurring or "distortion". That's the nature of digital. Now, because GSM measures the Bit Error Rate and CDMA measures Frame Error Rate, when the signal degrades, GSM will lose out bits, while CDMA will begin to lose Frames. However, it takes a helluva lot less signal strength to lose an entire Frame than it does to start missing Bits!! And because of CDMA's ...
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That last part, I don't even know what you said, but it was special, you touch a brotha heart!!!

but the thing is, GSM is DIGITAL ONLY. You only pick up the towers or you don't. At least with CDMA and Tri-mode phones, you'll get service in alot more places where GSM won't. It's based on Geographics, not quality.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...OKAY! Since that had ANY relevance to my post and all...(sarcasm) 🙄

Really...is there any relevance between these posts? I didn't ask for facts or opinions of you or anybody. I simply stated that MOST Verizon reps in here are hypocrites and give their own company a double standard.

I will act as though that was not directed towards me...

i would say it wasn't... you happen to be one of the good guys.

i agree

I'll just ignore that post also...

RUFF1415 said:
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...OKAY! Since that had ANY relevance to my post and all...(sarcasm) 🙄

Really...is there any relevance between these posts? I didn't ask for facts or opinions of you or anybody. I simply stated that MOST Verizon reps in here are hypocrites and give their own company a double standard.

so true... very unfortunate, too, IMHO. Verizon is a decent company with good coverage (except where I live, of course). But if I were a consumer looking on here for info I would NEVER sign up with Verizon just based on what most of their employees have to say on here. Can't admit you're not always the best? 😡

We're not always the best. But we're consistently better than the rest, and have been because we consistently care about what we're doing and how we're percieved in the market. Really, VZW is the market leader - when you look at the total package instead of getting hung up on the number of customers, we consistently come out on top. VZW is not perfect - and definitely, no carrier is perfect either.

Epik