Probably, but I believe that Cingular's numbers won't like they were on the 2003 report...

No, Churn may be up a bit because of taking on ATTWS. Their churn was through the roof over the last year or so.
Net adds will be down a bit, due to ATTWS.
It will take some time to bring those former ATTWS markets into the black.

We'll see.

speck said:
We'll see.

I think he's right Speck. No offense, but it'll take a little time to get those markets turning more positive numbers. I don't think we'll start seeing the true benefits of this buyout till this time next year.

I wasn't arguing... I've honestly no idea what the numbers will look like. I would rather take the neutral stance than to ass-u-me anything at this point... I just don't think this report will be like the report in 2003... I'm hopeful the way the year has gone that some numbers will look better... They may or may not.

We'll see. 😎

I would be willing to bet that they won't. I am privy to some of the inside numbers that the Cingular/AT&T buy out has produced. I can't give any specifics, but I can tell you that several markets have missed goals by upward from 50% since day 1 occurred. This is not a good trend to have at all. If this continues, it may be until 2006/2007 before Cingular will even break even on the AT&T buy out, let alone make a profit. The problem with it is that in a great deal of markets people went to AT&T to not be Cingular. Since they have become Cingular again, they are leaving. And as for the guerrilla tactics...I have experienced that first hand working for a divested AT&T store (or known as "blue" store). Not a pretty scene at all...giving a great...
(continues)

privy to some of the inside numbers, eh? Right, i'm sure... Working @ a blue retail store and all, i'm sure you "got the hook up"... Break even or make profit? Do you even know where the $41 billion came from for the merger? Which markets missed their "goals"? Do you even know what those "goals" are?

Seriously... If our own Director doesn't have an estimate as to what the numbers will look like... How can you expect me to believe a Blue Retail Store Rep knows anything more?

speck said:
privy to some of the inside numbers, eh? Right, i'm sure... Working @ a blue retail store and all, i'm sure you "got the hook up"... Break even or make profit? Do you even know where the $41 billion came from for the merger? Which markets missed their "goals"? Do you even know what those "goals" are?

Seriously... If our own Director doesn't have an estimate as to what the numbers will look like... How can you expect me to believe a Blue Retail Store Rep knows anything more?

I know, I know! He's the CEO's son!

Yeah... 🤣

Ahhh...if only I had the freedom to tell you exactly how I know what I do know. Problem is, I can't tell anybody due to restriction imposed on us due to the divestiture! The "blue" stores do know more than you think. For example, in the OK market Cingular was forced to spend and ADDITIONAL $2,000,000 to set up a separate "blue only" call center because they were lieing to customers telling them they needed to switch carriers to upgrade phones (remember: this is the the "blue" divested market group...against the FCC/DOJ rulings...but guerrilla warfare at its finest). Rest assured, there are many countless other issues that I cannot explain in details, but mark my words: Cingular is not doing as well as they are making themselves out to be, an...
(continues)

speedywalk said:
Ahhh...if only I had the freedom to tell you exactly how I know what I do know. Problem is, I can't tell anybody due to restriction imposed on us due to the divestiture! The "blue" stores do know more than you think. For example, in the OK market Cingular was forced to spend and ADDITIONAL $2,000,000 to set up a separate "blue only" call center because they were lieing to customers telling them they needed to switch carriers to upgrade phones (remember: this is the the "blue" divested market group...against the FCC/DOJ rulings...but guerrilla warfare at its finest). Rest assured, there are many countless other issues that I cannot explain in details, but mark my words: Cingular is not doing as well as the

...
(continues)

PhoenixAshes said:

P.S. The blue stores know more than you think--we're still "technically" the same company, but not the same company...news gets around. Not to mention that we like trying to keep up with the info so we can compare our pace to that of the competition.

That's not true. The OKC blue call center has been there for years. No seperate call center was created.



The center was changed intenally for handling specifically customers in that divested market Only!

I regret to inform you that we had 2 call centers that were a possibility for us to have--one out of Texas or one out of Ontario. We got the one out of Ontario. Every call from our market is routed through the Canadian call center. Sorry, but that is not true at all. If you're in the divested market ask where the next customer service rep is from. In the last month we have gotten ONE from Tennesse, other than that--all Canadian. Thank your for playing, please try again. And by the way, our acting CEO fought for the Canadian center, it's the one she wanted. And the call center in Gailarrdia is cleaned out anyhow haus; our store manager has BEEN in there within the last few weeks.

Speedywalk
"It ain't broke, it just needs duct tape!"

WHICH ONE,WELLAND OR TAMARACK?

You have no clue what you're talking about... That my friend I do know. Now the divested group is strictly in charge of divested markets.. Markets that have been ruled that we cannot keep spectrum or customers...

Yes, news gets around... So does misinformation as well... I never said blue reps knew nothing... My comments are directed towards you... And what's this "proprietary" info crap... You're a BLUE retail rep... You're not in atlanta... and you're not the KGB...

I am in Migrations, will I go as far as to say I know what Research & Development discussed last week? We all do our part and we all hear things... But to tell me you know more than Upper Management does is simply ludicrous...

Ahh my friend, but I do. I regret to inform you that we still have access to the Daily Sales Reports due to the fact that some of our sales are being tracked in there as well. Since we know what blue stores have become orange stores, we know what their performance in the past was, especially the months leading up to day 1. If we compare their current sales to the performance in the past we know how they are tracking. Just let the numbers come to print and we'll see what is what. If the numbers show me wrong, I'll eat my crow, but if they're not...

Speedywalk
"It ain't broke, it just needs duct tape!"

P.S. The OKC call center is Cingular's center now. That was not part of the divestiture--our direct line (the 405XXXXXXX number, not the...
(continues)

You're joking right? A Sales Report... that's what your basing your statements on? You're basing your statements on a Sales Report that was only reflecting Cingular's side since Nov. 15th to make an assumption as to what the annual report is going to look like...

You said that Cingular built the OKC... There is a difference with keeping an existing center and building one from the ground up. And yes, the OKC is Cingular's center now... along with how many other centers?

Two steps away from our CEO? I doubt that... You would be upper management, meaning we would have received an Organizational Announcement company wide with your name tagged on there as Director of Gutter Crap or something along those lines... You could also get ...
(continues)

Not just one sales report, but DAILY sales figures. We know HOW those stores DID perform (and they kicked our store's butt by the way) and how they are performing NOW (and we are killing them by the way). And yes, I know who Cingular's CEO is, but do you know who the acting CEO of the AT&T Divested group is? And how she is literally 2 steps above store management right now? Or also how our acting CEO gets to sit in on the negotiations with Cingular and the FCC? We knew about the AllTel purchase 3 weeks before AllTel put the announcement on their website announcing that they were purchasing theOklahoma market. The problem is that the Orange group is totally out of the loop on this because it does not concern them. They have as much to do with...
(continues)

You know, you're absolutely right! You are far more knowledged than our Directors or VP's could ever be... It is so obvious now that an acquisitioned employee knows so much more than any legacy employee ever could... You have opened my eyes... I see now why our execs are discussing every fractional detail w/ Blue employees as opposed to other levels of management... How could I be so blind?

I see now that you have sat and spoke w/ all CEO's involved... I know you must have information from BST and SBC hand delivered to you as well, could you ever forgive such a lowly servant for ever questioning your divine importance to this company?

As horrible as we're doing and all the gazillions of dollars we've lost should I seek other employeem...
(continues)

You know, I'm just giving information here...all of it is solid, hard numbers and information I have received and the Oklahoma market has received first hand. I haven't resorted no name-calling, or any other childish behavior. As to this end, I think I have demonstrated two things:

1. The guerrilla tactics of Cingular are in effect, as are a vast many of the childish and hateful posts in many of the boards in any of the forums.

2. The orange markets do not have any idea as to what is going on in our market.

This is proven by the fact that you kept asking me if I knew who YOUR CEO is. And of course I know that. But if you really knew what was what, you would have know that the divested market has our own CEO. We are not some headless...
(continues)

I did not resort to name calling... I merely was consumed with agreement...

The thing is you did not provide any facts... Nor did you provide any information... You simply provided...

"I am important... I know inside information... I know more than Orange Executives..."

I avoided the CEO subject as you did... You simply states "Yes I do"... I would hope you have information about the Divestiture... considering you handle the divested markets... You're sitting there claiming you know every number Churn, Network, Sales, Revenue, etc that will be in the Q4 report... Because you're in the Divested team? Numbers that our Directors cannot get a hold of just because you're in a Divested team?

The FCC requirement was that we provide cus...
(continues)

I was not making over all grandiose claims to know the numbers in the quarterly report. My initial claim was that according to the trends in two markets, the trend is down. And I do have those numbers to prove it. I'm not claiming to be important--I know I'm a "lowly legacy rep." However I do know information that is not public knowledge. And as for the FCC requirements, you are correct: it is not for public knowledge--however, since our CEO sits in on all of the FCC/Cingular/AT&T talks about divestitures, sales, and other policy. I'm not there for any of the discussion, but we do get information passed to us to help relay to the other stores since it does concern the employees, but not the customers. The claims are not ludicrous either. Lik...
(continues)

speedywalk said:
I was not making over all grandiose claims to know the numbers in the quarterly report. My initial claim was that according to the trends in two markets, the trend is down.

In response:

speedywalk said: I can't give any specifics, but I can tell you that several markets have missed goals by upward from 50% since day 1 occurred.

speedywalk said: However I do know information that is not public knowledge.

In response: Don't we all?

speedywalk said:And as for the FCC requirements, you are correct: it is not for public knowledge--however, since our CEO sits in on all of the FCC/Cingular/AT&T talks abo

...
(continues)

VZW reps are not making a nuisance of themselves on the Cingular forum, either.

BetterThanJake said:

megs72979 said:
customer loyalty??
how about verizon overhauling their network, changing their technology, and see what their churn looks like.
all things considered, cingular does have customer loyalty, a better network, and a better phones selection. (at least the phone selection you cannot argue 😁 )

Not Jeff, but
- Cingy has my sympathy on their network challenges, but Verizon chose the right technology from the get-go and thus deserves the advantages accrued from that
- Cingy, better network? Gosh, certainly not here in the Bay Area. Verizon blows everybody else here away. And nationwide, VZW feels confident enough to keep advertising that they're the best

...
(continues)

Mmm... okay, if Verizon's network "isn't any better" then why do they have a considerably lower churn rate than Cingy, or, especially, ATTW?

I mean, shiznits, Cingy's got better phones, according to you a better network, and according to you they're a better value too...and yet Verizon consistently, quarter after quarter, outperforms Cingular in holding onto their customers. What gives?

maybe vzw uses iron shackles and mind control?

BetterThanJake said:
Mmm... okay, if Verizon's network "isn't any better" then why do they have a considerably lower churn rate than Cingy, or, especially, ATTW?

I mean, shiznits, Cingy's got better phones, according to you a better network, and according to you they're a better value too...and yet Verizon consistently, quarter after quarter, outperforms Cingular in holding onto their customers. What gives?

Let's start with the incorrect accusation. I never said Cingular had a better network. I said the Verizon's network was not better than anyone else's. Here's why companies like Verizon and Nextel have low churn rates: better customers. Verizon and Nextel both have stricter credit guidelines than any ...
(continues)

PhoenixAshes said:

BetterThanJake said:
Mmm... okay, if Verizon's network "isn't any better" then why do they have a considerably lower churn rate than Cingy, or, especially, ATTW?

I mean, shiznits, Cingy's got better phones, according to you a better network, and according to you they're a better value too...and yet Verizon consistently, quarter after quarter, outperforms Cingular in holding onto their customers. What gives?

Let's start with the incorrect accusation. I never said Cingular had a better network. I said the Verizon's network was not better than anyone else's. Here's why companies like Verizon and Nextel have low churn rates: better customers. Verizon and Nextel both ha

...
(continues)

Churn numbers are not padded by any carrier. Everyone in corporate America is in fear of Sarbanes-Oxley which is congress' knee jerk reaction to Enron. No corporation will knowingly report false or misleading numbers because of the consequences to the price of their stock if they fail their audits.

SPCSVZWJeff said:
Churn numbers are not padded by any carrier. Everyone in corporate America is in fear of Sarbanes-Oxley which is congress' knee jerk reaction to Enron. No corporation will knowingly report false or misleading numbers because of the consequences to the price of their stock if they fail their audits.

Unless they're utterly insane like Enron was.

PhoenixAshes said:
Prepaid service alone will get any company at least a 1% churn every quarter.

I dunno about that, Phoenix... I saw some figures not long ago that had Verizon's churn at 1.5% including prepaid customers, and 1.3% without prepaid. Thats only a .2% difference, and by itself doesn't really explain the 'churn gap' between Verizon and Cingular.

Here is another reason that churn is misrepresented: Verizon recently had a 1.9% churn rate on 40 million customers. Cingular had a 2.7% churn on 25 million customers. Guess who lost more customers? Verizon lost 760,000 and Cingular lost 675,000. Verizon lost more customers even though they are trying to hide it with the "churn percentage"

...
(continues)

BetterThanJake said:

PhoenixAshes said:
Prepaid service alone will get any company at least a 1% churn every quarter.

I dunno about that, Phoenix... I saw some figures not long ago that had Verizon's churn at 1.5% including prepaid customers, and 1.3% without prepaid. Thats only a .2% difference, and by itself doesn't really explain the 'churn gap' between Verizon and Cingular.

Here is another reason that churn is misrepresented: Verizon recently had a 1.9% churn rate on 40 million customers. Cingular had a 2.7% churn on 25 million customers. Guess who lost more customers? Verizon lost 760,000 and Cingular lost 675,000. Verizon lost more customers even though they are tryi

...
(continues)

you still don't make any f***** sense. Have you ever heard of per capita? From your logic or the logic you express through your limited typing skills... yeah I feel like being ass this morning... Cingular is gonna take over VZW because VZW loses customers every quarter. Yeah, well so does Cingy... and Cingy is losin them at a much higher rate than VZW.

And I hate to tell ya but Cingy is losin money on those prepaid customers...

Dan717 said:
If GSM is as good as a CDMA based technology why is it that ALL 3G FORMATS are based on CDMA Technology? UMTS is officially W-CDMA.

The only reason why GSM took off in the US is because Qualcomm, the inventor of the original CDMA technology, P'O'ed all of companies and at that time GSM was tried and true.

Wideband Code Division Multiple Access

W-CDMA is a GSM based technology that utilizes Wideband-CDMA air interface...

Here are the breakdowns of the basic standards in IMT-2000 which include:

- IMT-DS (direct spread). WCDMA.
- IMT-MC (multi-carrier). CDMA2000.
- IMT-TC (time-code) UTRA TDD & TD-SCDMA.
- IMT-FT (frequency-time). DECT.
- IMT-SC (single carrier). TDMA.