AskJack said:
Its a shame, I think all the exe and reps will need counseling or something. . . the Meeger is going GREAT!! and we didnt even have to lower prices we raised the prices, and we're still "Raising The Bar!"

Thats what really has me going. Verizon is lowering prices and Cingular is raising them and still Verizon is not getting the port ins tey were so gleefully anticipating on this board and ini the board room.....Amazing.

Denial is a wonderful thing.....for the competition

"Verizon is lowering prices and Cingular is raising them and still Verizon is not getting the port ins tey were so gleefully anticipating on this board and ini the board room.....Amazing"


where is the proof?

nextel18 said:
"Verizon is lowering prices and Cingular is raising them and still Verizon is not getting the port ins tey were so gleefully anticipating on this board and ini the board room.....Amazing"


where is the proof?

Sprint 1st qtr new subs and Cingular's new subs 4th qtr last year and 1st qtr this year.....Theres your proof. You do work in the business don't you?

"Sprint 1st qtr new subs and Cingular's new subs 4th qtr last year and 1st qtr this year"

pathetic.

look at verizon's new sub growth for the year of 2004. THEY WENT UP!!!

look at their churn levels. THEY WENT DOWN!!!! WHICH MEANS WHAT? more people came in to the company then going out. which means what? they are stealing market share from other providers.

nextel18 said:
"Sprint 1st qtr new subs and Cingular's new subs 4th qtr last year and 1st qtr this year"

pathetic.

look at verizon's new sub growth for the year of 2004. THEY WENT UP!!!

look at their churn levels. THEY WENT DOWN!!!! WHICH MEANS WHAT? more people came in to the company then going out. which means what? they are stealing market share from other providers.

Ho Hum.....Yesterdays news. You like them like driving using the rear view mirror don't ya. Be careful you may hit an Orange tree and burst into flames....

again, look at churn look at net ads. both doing well.

cingular's arpu went down. (what does that tell you) cingular's ads went down compared to q4 what does that tell you?

the holiays were good to the Carriers?

you dont even answer my questions.

nextel18 said:
you dont even answer my questions.

you're not worthy...............

lol why not? just becuase you are wrong with everything you say? lol ok...

so your promise to us is that if verizon beats cingular on sub growth that you werent going to post here? (ever, 3 months? 6 months what?

nextel18 said:
lol why not? just becuase you are wrong with everything you say? lol ok...

so your promise to us is that if verizon beats cingular on sub growth that you werent going to post here? (ever, 3 months? 6 months what?

YEP...no posts here....Until my prediction is proven beyond reproach.

Wrong is something I have not been regarding Cingulars success vs Verizon......since the first quarter of the merger I have been right. This quarter will prove it was no fluke.

yea posts here. look it up yourself.

you said that cingular raised prices. arpu declines shows that becuase of the raising in prices that people went to the lower plans. thus; you being wrong.

I'm not in the business. I admit I do not know the intracaies of the various internal measurements and targets. But Nextel18 is or says he is and even I can see through much of his BS......amazing

My only real knowlege of Verizon came from my past and current experience with their Reps. And as the "face" of the company I was not impressed with relation to my own experience with ATTWS and now Cingular. With that and no other knowledge I made a prediction of Cingular's success and VErizon's HAVING to make huge adjustments to hang on to their trend levels.

The "public faces" of any compnay are the sails of the corporate ship....If they are torn and tattered, all the Corporate hot air wind in the world won't move the ship forward.

"My only real knowlege of Verizon came from my past and current experience with their Reps. "

what kind of reps? sales reps, customer service reps? which ones. by the way would they be hiring new reps if there isnt growth?

nextel18 said:
"My only real knowlege of Verizon came from my past and current experience with their Reps. "

what kind of reps? sales reps, customer service reps? which ones. by the way would they be hiring new reps if there isnt growth?

Sales Reps.....you have to get by that hurdle before you can enjoy the wonderful Customer Service....But many of the CS reps on this board have proven arrogance runs deep at Big Red as well.

They need to hire Reps to sell!!! The other carriers are adding more new subs.....You cannot be in this business.....HIring more Sales Reps is a sign they need more business. People are not running to VErizon no more. They need more exposure. A company who's product sells itself do...
(continues)

"I don't see them do you?."

no, the traffic from stores have decreased, however, that doesnt mean that consumers wont take other means such as tele sales or web orders.

nextel18 said:
"I don't see them do you?."

no, the traffic from stores have decreased, however, that doesnt mean that consumers wont take other means such as tele sales or web orders.

You can only hope thats the case...its your last one..

thats the only case. just becuase store traffic isnt high doesnt mean anything especially since there are other means of buying.

😁

Hiring more reps is NOT a sign they need more business.

Again, a statement that has no direct correlation to the point you are attempting to make.

They may need more reps for one reason or another (I personally increase payroll once business is steady, but that is to minimize risk as a small business) but one does not directly relate to the other as you state.

"
Hiring more reps is NOT a sign they need more business.
"

thats very true.

Polly want a cracker?

Then I guess they are hiring more Sales Reps becasue of the long lines outside the stores....my mistake...

why are you still being rude? i am not being rude while you are.

yea, hiring more sales reps means nothing. again, a lot of the traffic wasnt through stores its through other means such as tele sales and web sales.

Kingfrog77, probably not a fight you want to make. You do not see the hiring side of the industry as I or other owners would. You do not hire new staff in anticipation they will bring you the additional sales needed.

It is a balancing act, but the logic is not how you perceive. If you have one rep generating $12000 in commission and sales revenue you might hire another so the two of them together might generate at least $15000. That is just basic economics and the point of diminishing returns. At some point a sales rep will not be able to maximize sales revenue because they are too busy. Customers will walk because they don't want to wait, offers will be missed because the rep is rushed, etc. The point at which you hire another rep...
(continues)

texaswireless said:
Kingfrog77, probably not a fight you want to make. You do not see the hiring side of the industry as I or other owners would. You do not hire new staff in anticipation they will bring you the additional sales needed.

It is a balancing act, but the logic is not how you perceive. If you have one rep generating $12000 in commission and sales revenue you might hire another so the two of them together might generate at least $15000. That is just basic economics and the point of diminishing returns. At some point a sales rep will not be able to maximize sales revenue because they are too busy. Customers will walk because they don't want to wait, offers will be missed because the rep is rushed, etc.

...
(continues)

As my wife said while we read this, that was an eloquent response. It definately hits the nail on the head with Nextel18. If I am wrong about a FACT I have no problem admitting it.

I am definately a stubborn SOB when it comes to my opinions, but I have no reservations in saying I learn new facts everyday.

Nextel18,

The price increases came late 1st quarter. We will not see if their strategy proved out until 2nd quarter figures come out.

The jury is still out on this one, so no one is wrong yet.

according to the earnings call they said they raised the prices during the 1st quarter (they said beggining).

he was wrong about it.

Cingular did not raise the qualifying plan for $9.99 FT until February (at least in the Central Region). Based on that any new subscribers would not have bills until at earliest March. So All of January and most of February the new "scheme" could not have positively effected the numbers.

alright. anyway we will agree to disagree. i know what happened becuase i followed this quarter's channel checks as well as during their 1st quarter earnings call. even if it was in feb thats the 2nd quarter so it could have effected a small bit of consumers which would effect the arpu. thats what happens. next time perform channel checks yourself and listen to the conference calls.

What grades did you get in math? On a customer base of 50 million people any changes in rate plans would have a slow effect on arpu, positive or negative.

There is no agree to disagree. I have the marketing bulletin that is sent to agents when we have new rates.

You make it very hard man.

"What grades did you get in math?" now your insulting my intellegence? hmm thats interesting. i didnt do that to you. i did very well in math, my friend.

regardless churn effects everything.

" I have the marketing bulletin that is sent to agents when we have new rates."

and i have channel checks and others who actually follow the company more than you and i do.

we agree to disagree.

i know what i heard, you can say what you hear and see.

my information is a little bit more correct becuase its coming right from the company, channel checks, and other means of getting information.


"You make it very hard man."

becuase i am right.

Nextel18,

Do you know the definition of churn? Based on your statement you don't. More people coming into the company versus going out doesn't have a direct correlation to churn levels.

And sorry to say, but every Verizon shareholder is going to say "what have you done for me lately". 2004 may have been good, but it doesn't matter a lick if they are losing ground now.

Verizon is doing a MAJOR expansion right now. Why? They hate being second. The regional managers and Presidents know this which is why new exclusive Verizon agent stores are going to be popping up all over the country. They do not have the distribution to compete. Based on figures from my previous employer, Verizon sells more phones/door that does Cingular. Th...
(continues)

"Do you know the definition of churn? Based on your statement you don't"

nice thing to say. i know what churn is. its how many people leave vs how many people come in whether its voluntary or involuntary.

No, that is not correct.

Churn is the % of customers who deactivate in relation to your customer base. It does not have a direct relationship with new acts, especially if your base is a large as Verizon.

I'll give you an example. Let's say a company like Alltel loses 250,000 customers a month and a company like Verizon loses 250,000 customers a month. Who has higher churn? Alltel does because is relation to their base the % is higher. The % had nothing to do with how many new subscribers they added except a small fraction of the figure. What is does do is ensure they maintain their base, but the Churn figure is calculated solely on customer base and deacts.

lol... ok lets get you a definition of churn then.
http://www.vodafone.com/article/0,3029,CATEGORY_ID%2 ... »


"Churn
Customers disconnecting from mobile telephone networks. The 'churn rate' is the number of customers who disconnect from a network in a given period, divided by the average number of customers in that same period. "

----

looks like its fine to me.

??????

That is exactly what I said. The "average number of customers in that same period" is the average base.

2% churn would equal
Average year:
45 million base
950K disconnects
5 million adds
Average base during period 47.5 million divided into disconnects of 950K equals 2.00% yearly churn (roughly).

Now if you take out all the adds you would have 45 million average base divided into 950K equals 2.1% churn.

The adds have a very small effect on the calculation of churn. If you think the adds mean that much to churn you are mistaken.

i know. you dont have to tell me.

"The adds have a very small effect on the calculation of churn. If you think the adds mean that much to churn you are mistaken. "

lol thats funny. its a very important metric in the wireless industry.

the big things that are looked at... for the quarter and year
1. churn
2. arpu (data arpu)
3. sub growth quart and yearly
4. lifetime revenue per user.

those are the most important things that carriers and analysts and investors look at. if you think not, YOU are sadly mistaken.

churn is extremely important.

nextel18 said:
"Sprint 1st qtr new subs and Cingular's new subs 4th qtr last year and 1st qtr this year"

pathetic.

look at verizon's new sub growth for the year of 2004. THEY WENT UP!!!

look at their churn levels. THEY WENT DOWN!!!! WHICH MEANS WHAT? more people came in to the company then going out. which means what? they are stealing market share from other providers.

You said "look at their churn levels. THEY WENT DOWN!!!! WHICH MEANS WHAT? more people came in to the company then going out."

That statement is completely baseless and is the crux of my debate. More people coming into a company versus deactivating DOES NOT correlate to lower churn. The definition you posted speaks nothing o...
(continues)

lol... thats all i am going to say. to say that i dont know how to calcuate that is pathetic. since you dont know me its a very stupid thing to say.

calling me stupid? very nice. what else is knew. name calling is your fortee.

good luck, sir. i know my facts and things of that nature. you can think otherwise.

Please quote where I called you stupid.

its easy. you keep saying i have no concept of anything. you said that i dont comprehend things. you questioned my abilities. what grades did i get in math.

that all shows that i am stupid as you indicate.

Well, your statements may prove you are "stupid" (your words, not mine) but you are the one creating that persona.

no. you called me stupid, however, not directly. those all lead up to that.

i know you cant do anything else but name calling but thats ok. nothing else is new.

"Verizon is lowering prices and Cingular is raising them"

by the way cingular's arpu fell, which means that a lot of people got the low end plans NOT THE HIGHER ONES. again your theory is shot.

also how many millions of dollars is cingular bleeding right know.may have most people,but service still doesnt compare to vzw.and as such they will be losing people when their contracts are up.

cingular lost 240 million dollars for quarter 1.

"may have most people,but service still doesnt compare to vzw.and as such they will be losing people when their contracts are up."

are you talking about that people will leave verizon to go to cingular once subscribers (at verizon) contracts are up?

The costs of the merger are going to affect the balance sheet AT&T wirelelss was a sick company. Cingular bought a sick company with some great assests but poorly managed. When u digest a sick company u get a little indigestion but Cingular offers very competitive product. Verizon has been saying since 11/03 that they where going to kill us with number portability and then when the merger hit they said they were going to take us out then. Keep on waiting for the mass cancellation's and keep dreaming.

simplymarcus said:
The costs of the merger are going to affect the balance sheet AT&T wirelelss was a sick company. Cingular bought a sick company with some great assests but poorly managed. When u digest a sick company u get a little indigestion but Cingular offers very competitive product. Verizon has been saying since 11/03 that they where going to kill us with number portability and then when the merger hit they said they were going to take us out then. Keep on waiting for the mass cancellation's and keep dreaming.

It NEVER happened. ITs not going to happen. Verizon brass are pulling their hair out with a new give away every week to attract the ATTWS malcontents and they are not coming.

AND these ar...
(continues)

well verizon has been doing extremly well with total net adds for the year. they have been saying things against other providers too, and it doesnt mean much. i still think vzw will do very well against the other carriers.

mitchell1 said:
also how many millions of dollars is cingular bleeding right know.may have most people,but service still doesnt compare to vzw.and as such they will be losing people when their contracts are up.

You as all Verizon fan boys are living in the past and hoping for a future that repeats the past....

The old" They will come to Verizon" line is played out. I was told last year by a Verizon rep " Go ahead to Cingular....you'll end up with Verizon"

Same old tune....different day....

Oh and FYI.....Cingular will be profitable this fiscal year...Watch and learn.......

All those ATTWS customers did not materialize and they had no obligation to migrate to Verizon...Whats up with that and you...
(continues)

fyi, their first quarter numbers they lost 250 million dollars.

nextel18 said:
fyi, their first quarter numbers they lost 250 million dollars.

Talk to me at the end of the year.....Prediction number 2...Cingular WILL show a profit in 2005....

give some other predicitions of verizon vs cingular.

profit
sub growth
arpu
data arpu
churn
complaints.

etc...

I'm sure you also got a bonus from Verizon last year as did my little brother, ask some Cingular reps about their bonuses! Oh wait, I forgot! Most of them are Union employees that don't have that in their agreement!

You should be proud to work for VZW even if Cingular is number one, you work for a company that outperforms them in almost every metric!