yea, cingular has a highier data arpu and regular arpu then verizon.

You have to take into account the fact that Verizon just added new family plans. There have been a lot of customers signing up on the 500 minute share plans. 5 lines for 89.96, that will hurt their ARPU a little. But if Verizon ever becomes #1 again (customer base), then they'll be making more money even if their ARPU is a little lower.

"then they'll be making more money even if their ARPU is a little lower."

yea, this statment is obvious.

i just think that verizon needs to increase their prices a bit becuase it will help. i think they are hoping that arpu and data arpu would go up becuase of the text messaging plan and the vcast and DO systems.

Sometimes the obvious must be stated for some people.

very true. hahaha i love your screen name. after looking at that, i am very hungry. lol

I didnt feel like looking but vzws arpu raised but cingulars dropped correct? If that is a trend you do the math.

i belive that is true, but cingular's data arpu increased a lot and is highier than verizon's. but cingular's arpu is still highier then verizon's.

BigMacDoodle said:
You have to take into account the fact that Verizon just added new family plans. There have been a lot of customers signing up on the 500 minute share plans. 5 lines for 89.96, that will hurt their ARPU a little. But if Verizon ever becomes #1 again (customer base), then they'll be making more money even if their ARPU is a little lower.

Which is exactly why someone else pointed out that Cingular is making more money than Verizon.

More revenue, perhaps. But not more profits.

Eh? The 'trash talk' had to do with VZW beating Cingy in not only customer adds, but churn, and ARPU gains as well (+2.0% ARPU for VZW, -3.3% for Cingy).

The 50 cents difference in absolute ARPU isn't much to hang your hat on (especially if ARPU keeps trending the way it has been for the two companies; in other words, Verizon up, Cingy down), but if you REALLY want to talk absolute ARPU, Nextel blows everybody away... their ARPU is around $67, last time I checked. 😲

BetterThanJake said:
Eh? The 'trash talk' had to do with VZW beating Cingy in not only customer adds, but churn, and ARPU gains as well (+2.0% ARPU for VZW, -3.3% for Cingy).

The 50 cents difference in absolute ARPU isn't much to hang your hat on (especially if ARPU keeps trending the way it has been for the two companies; in other words, Verizon up, Cingy down), but if you REALLY want to talk absolute ARPU, Nextel blows everybody away... their ARPU is around $67, last time I checked. 😲

You can't say that Verizon did better with arpu if the number is lower.
Sorry.
And Nextel's ARPU would mean something if they had any subscribers. It would also mean something if more than half of their custom...
(continues)

Oh, I can certainly say Verizon had a better quarter, because they did. Why split hairs about it? 😉

Also, Nextel has plenty of subscribers... its not like they're a regional. They have a lot of business customers... so what? No one is preventing Cingy from going out and getting more biz cusotmers. But if you want someone else who blows doors on ARPU, you could look at Sprint. Their ARPU is $61.

BetterThanJake said:
Oh, I can certainly say Verizon had a better quarter, because they did. Why split hairs about it? 😉

Also, Nextel has plenty of subscribers... its not like they're a regional. They have a lot of business customers... so what? No one is preventing Cingy from going out and getting more biz cusotmers. But if you want someone else who blows doors on ARPU, you could look at Sprint. Their ARPU is $61.

Nothing was said of having a "better quarter". That's actually debatable. What cannot be debated is the lower ARPU of Verizon last quarter. Undeniable fact. They had a lower ARPU with a smaller number of customers. So, they made less money. Verizon did turn a profit, but they did not hav...
(continues)

Al_Swearengen said:
Nothing was said of having a "better quarter". That's actually debatable.

Gosh, no, it really isn't. 😳

Verizon
1) beat Cingular in customer adds (1.64m to 1.4m)
2) beat Cingular in churn (1.3% to 2.2%)
3) beat Cingular in ARPU gains (+2.1% to -3.3%)
4) beat Cingular in profits

Hence the all the news articles with titles like "Verizon surpasses all expectations". And the stock price went up too. From any remotely reasonable point of view, VZW had a outstanding quarter.

I would say that Cingular has much to be proud of right now and are owners of the tools necessary to succeed.

Despite losing the quarter, Cingy deserves a few props too. They have...
(continues)

BetterThanJake said:

Al_Swearengen said:
Nothing was said of having a "better quarter". That's actually debatable.

Gosh, no, it really isn't. 😳

Verizon
1) beat Cingular in customer adds (1.64m to 1.4m)
2) beat Cingular in churn (1.3% to 2.2%)
3) beat Cingular in ARPU gains (+2.1% to -3.3%)
4) beat Cingular in profits

Hence the all the news articles with titles like "Verizon surpasses all expectations". And the stock price went up too. From any remotely reasonable point of view, VZW had a outstanding quarter.

I would say that Cingular has much to be proud of right now and are owners of the tools necessary to succeed.

Despite losing the quarter,

...
(continues)

Al_Swearengen said:
1)Verizon did beat Cingular in net adds, but not raw adds. Cingular added almost 5 million customers in 1Q. The slightly higher churn is responsible for the lower "net" adds.

Mm... that's just it though, Cingy didn't have 'slightly higher' churn, they had almost double VZW's churn, 2.2% vs 1.3%.

Put another way, Cingy lost approx 1.1 million customers to churn in the quarter. VZW lost only 600k. So ok, Cingy had more raw adds... doesn't do them much good if they have nearly TWICE as many customers bailing on them as Verizon, which then causes Cingy to lose in net adds as well. Referencing raw adds just highlights how far Cingy still has to go in churn.

2) Cingular's chu

...
(continues)

You referenced POPs. Those are potential customers, not the relative size of the network. Although POPs and actual size of the network would have some connection, they are NOT the same.

For example (that is completely hypothetical):

Verizon has coverage in a major city and the surrounding area whose population is approximately 800,000 but only is an area of about 90 square miles.

Cingular has coverage in a major city and the surrounding area whose population is 400,000 but covers an area of 130 square miles.

So Verizon's network covers 40 square miles less than Cingular's network, but covers twice as many POPs.

As you can see, the POPs cannot accurately reflect upon the physical size of the network.

Plus, I believe Verizo...
(continues)

Well said.

RUFF1415 said:
You referenced POPs. Those are potential customers, not the relative size of the network. Although POPs and actual size of the network would have some connection, they are NOT the same.

...As you can see, the POPs cannot accurately reflect upon the physical size of the network.

Sure RUFF, I understand that number of people covered and number of square miles covered are not the same thing, but even when you're looking at the Cingular and Verizon national coverage maps side-by-side (which is a square miles judgement), Verizon's coverage area is larger:

http://onlinestoree.cingular.com/html/Maps/nation_GS ... »
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/store/controller? ... »...
(continues)

Al_Swearengen said:

BetterThanJake said:
Oh, I can certainly say Verizon had a better quarter, because they did. Why split hairs about it? 😉

Also, Nextel has plenty of subscribers... its not like they're a regional. They have a lot of business customers... so what? No one is preventing Cingy from going out and getting more biz cusotmers. But if you want someone else who blows doors on ARPU, you could look at Sprint. Their ARPU is $61.

Nothing was said of having a "better quarter". That's actually debatable. What cannot be debated is the lower ARPU of Verizon last quarter. Undeniable fact. They had a lower ARPU with a smaller number of customers. So, they made less money. Verizon

...
(continues)

Al_Swearengen said:

BetterThanJake said:
Oh, I can certainly say Verizon had a better quarter, because they did. Why split hairs about it? 😉

Also, Nextel has plenty of subscribers... its not like they're a regional. They have a lot of business customers... so what? No one is preventing Cingy from going out and getting more biz cusotmers. But if you want someone else who blows doors on ARPU, you could look at Sprint. Their ARPU is $61.

Nothing was said of having a "better quarter". That's actually debatable. What cannot be debated is the lower ARPU of Verizon last quarter. Undeniable fact. They had a lower ARPU with a smaller number of customers. So, they made less money. Verizon

...
(continues)

if they have subscribers? lol. they have plenty. look at their lifetime revenue per user and churn. THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY. oh yea, arpu is also.

really? what about boost mobile, which are mostly all consumers.

1. highiest arpu at 40.
2. data arpu at 2
3. churn at 5percent which is the best in the industry.

looks good to me

nextel18 said:
if they have subscribers? lol. they have plenty. look at their lifetime revenue per user and churn. THE BEST IN THE INDUSTRY. oh yea, arpu is also.

really? what about boost mobile, which are mostly all consumers.

1. highiest arpu at 40.
2. data arpu at 2
3. churn at 5percent which is the best in the industry.

looks good to me

And they still have less subs than any of the national carriers. Think about it. They merged with the third largest company. Now they are still the third largest company. Great. 😕

i dont see your point.

they still have 43 million subscribers vs verizon's 45 and cingular's 50. thats pretty good, especially since nextel/sprint did better in 2004 then verizon and better then cingular and sprint in quarter 1 2005. so i am not to worried.

Finally, I have time to log onto this site again. I'm tired of all the tomfoolery on here from certain people. Nextel 18 for instance. The company is going to be called sprint-nextel, not nextel-sprint. Secondly, I would get terribly excited about the numbers that either of those companies are posting. Why? Because, although I don't have the exact information available to me right this very minute, I know that a large portion of each of those carrier's subscriber base is prepaid, particularly sprint's. In addition. sprint posted a nice amount of adds last year due to purchasing qwest's subscribers.

"Because, although I don't have the exact information available to me right this very minute, I know that a large portion of each of those carrier's subscriber base is prepaid, particularly sprint's"

doesnt that contradict yourself? you said you didnt know but then you said you knew for a fact? but anyway your wrong with that. its mostly wholesale/mvno's and core, not prepaid.

no excuses my friend. they did well no matter what. their core, and their wholesale/mvno's did extremly well.

nextel18 said:
"I know that a large portion of each of those carrier's subscriber base is prepaid, particularly sprint's"

doesnt that contradict yourself? you said you didnt know but then you said you knew for a fact? but anyway your wrong with that. its mostly wholesale/mvno's and core, not prepaid.

no excuses my friend. they did well no matter what. their core, and their wholesale/mvno's did extremly well.

Aren't MVNOs (mobile virtual network operators) prepay a lot of the time? Like 7-Eleven or Virgin?

it can be either or. prepaid or not prepaid.

but mvno's/wholesales are on the network which providers revenue, with less cpga. thus; you count them on the network as additions.

it can be prepaid, or from comcast, qwest, time warner etc.... as long as it hits the network.