AshDizzle said:
AllOverDropCall network... wow. That is really genius. In fact, I am absolutely floored by the amount of time it must have taken you to come up with that prodigal masterpiece.

I agree, that's wasn't good. Somethin' mo' like the 'DropsCallsAllOver™ Network' woulda been better. Or maybe the SmallOver™ Network. I've also heard 'Grazing the bar'.

Making fun of Verizon has been less easy fo' me. I take one look at the VZW Test Nerd an' jus' start laughin'. He's kinda like self-parody already.

He didnt come up with that name silly, the customers did..

Thank you for your support! 😉 You're right, a customer who switched a family of 5 from Cingy to Vz told me that 🤣

T

Trolling = crime! 😎

Btw, thank you for you compliments, they are not for me though - one of my customers came up with it.

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't matter what drive tests say.

So if a disgruntled friend has issues with a company because it...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't matter what drive tests say.

So if a disgruntled friend h

...
(continues)

SystemShock said:

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't matter what drive tests say.

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn'

...
(continues)

SImply put Ruff, Fo'syth stated (correctly, IMO) that "a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters." In response to that you went off on some tangent 'bout customers who drop phones in toilets. In response to THAT, I jus' said that a lot of customers base their satisfaction wit' a carrier on important things.. like network performance. I'm glad that you do agree wit' that.

I don' think that people hold "JD Power an' Consumer Reports against Cingular's network like it was the hand of God". The average consumer jus' reads 'em an' goes "Cingular ain' so good, looks like", after all.

But if they were to go into more detail, they'd be RIGHT in thinkin' that both CR an' JD Power DO partially grade on netwo...
(continues)

Here is my opinion on that. The test drive results only show on ly show the results of that companies test equipment, but the consumer reports survey's show the results of 50,000 cell phone users experience with how the networs perform. I will take the real world user experience over the simulateed test equipment results any day.

You do that.

Celling_it said:
Here is my opinion on that. The test drive results only show on ly show the results of that companies test equipment, but the consumer reports survey's show the results of 50,000 cell phone users experience with how the networs perform. I will take the real world user experience over the simulateed test equipment results any day.

I think there's good solid reasons for listening to both sets of results.

Still, if I had to pick only one, I'd go wit' real world user experiences any day, since they're more likely to use the service in the same ways I do than a test van (test vans can't go indoors to make calls, can they?). Plus, customers do get to vote wit' their feet. Which carriers have...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't matter what drive tests say.

So if a disgruntled friend h

...
(continues)

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't matter what drive tests say.

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:
I think the issue is that people hold J.D. Powers and Consumer Reports results as if they were a direct judgement on the newtork quality. Verizon fanatics do it here every day. Those surveys are not targeting the network, but the company as a whole.

Its not just JD Power an' CR though. Its also word-of-mouth slammin' Cingular.. I know, I hear it sometimes.

Far as the network goes, well if even Cingular's own CEO is unwillin' to say that Cingular has the best network, its kinda hard for me to disagree wit' him.

Nobody should have the right to say they have the best network. Not even Verizon.

If Cingular outperforms Verizon in places, and Verizon outperforms Sprint in places, and Sprint outperforms T-Mobile in places, and T-Mobile outperforms Cingular in places, who truly offers the best network?

The best network should be a regional, or even a local recognition. Personally, I don't think that any company can be justified in saying that they operate the best network.

Where do you hear Cingular customers slamming their NETWORK oh-so-often?

RUFF1415 said:
Nobody should have the right to say they have the best network. Not even Verizon.

Unless o' course.. they actually have the best network?

Also, its not jus' Verizon sayin' they have the best network. Its Cingular's CEO also. That's.. a pretty big endorsement.

If Cingular outperforms Verizon in places, and Verizon outperforms Sprint in places, and Sprint outperforms T-Mobile in places, and T-Mobile outperforms Cingular in places, who truly offers the best network?

That's oversimplifying, tho'.

'Cus if Carrier A outperforms Carrier B in 5 places, but Carrier B outperforms Carrier A in 100 places.. then yeah, I'd have to say that Carrier B probably has the best...
(continues)

Yeah. Los Angeles. I'm sure that network is just absolutely horrible. You just can't get off saying huge cities have bad coverage. It's not true. I've been there.

I constantly have customers come up to me and say "the service in Phoenix is just horrible!" As they shift their eyes away from mine. What's the matter chap, can't keep eye contact with me when you are telling a fib? I have been to Phoenix, and I have been the LA. I have had no service issues. I go to places where people say they have no reception in my town, and I have it. The bottom line is that customers just love to complain. It happens with every carrier.

However in my market, Verizon has such a hold on everyone because they have been around here much longer. ...
(continues)

I must jump in here. I have been to Phoenix. In fact, I spent a significant part of the first 6 months of 2005 there. The Cingular service in that city is HORRID, and that is being nice. The ONLY way I had cell service was to forward my Cingular phone to my Verizon phone. And EVERYONE in my company said the same thing. They all switched to Verizon (the ones that moved out to work at our new location) within 2 months of moving out there.

And I will look you straight in the eye every time I say that. By the looks of the new coverage map, Cingular may have improved out there, but during the first half of 2005, it was really bad out there.

That is almost a year ago and no longer valid. Cingular was not even IN Phoenix just 2 years ago, anything here was something that AT&T had put up. I have been to Phoenix repeatedly in the past 2-3 months and had no problems.

AshDizzle said:
That is almost a year ago and no longer valid. Cingular was not even IN Phoenix just 2 years ago, anything here was something that AT&T had put up. I have been to Phoenix repeatedly in the past 2-3 months and had no problems.

What part of Phoenix are you repeatedly in??? I was in the eastern part -- mainly between 44th and 49th streets along McDowell and Van Buren. Also spent some time in Scottsdale.

I just bought a car off West Van Buren near the interstate, I don't know the major cross streets, and never lost service anywhere along that road. I have friend who live off Tatum blvd in Scottsdale (near the IN&OUT). I do not have poor service anywhere in that town.

The key to your post is "West Van Buren." The east side is horrible....I never had more than 2 bars and NEVER had a clear call on either my Nokia or my RAZR. And Scottsdale is fine, as long as you stay on a road. Once you turn into a shopping plaza and especially go in a building - your service is GONE.

I find that hard to believe. I have started to pay attention more however so I will check it out next time I travel.

I live here in Scottsdale now and I will agree... Cingy is aweful here. VZW isn't that great either, not nearly as good as it was in Philly... Sprint is the best here actually.

That is what everyone told me while I was out there. They also said T-Mobile is good as well. But I didn't have any problems at all with my Verizon service. I just couldn't get any service on my Cingular phone.

T-Mo is good as well on the east... the west is a bit touchy except for Glendale.

I've noticed my ev-do is spotty here... I bought a place here in McDowell ranch... like my ev-do card is good in the back yard, but not good at all inside... but my house is an older dry-vit house with very solid walls...

When I had my apartment on 98th and Sahauro my data coverage was excellent, but my voice quality was poop... no dropped calls or anything, just sounded like it was distant and muffled or high with static... like a 2-way without enough power.

I don't think it was the phones, I have an 815, the VX9800, and a Treo 650... all about the same, with the Moto being best of the 3 for voice.

T-Mo is really good in Tempe, Chandler & Mesa... e...
(continues)

You had the 9800? What did you think of that phone? I only ask because I'm thinking of getting it.

I still have it... its quite good. I like it cuz I SMS about 500 times a month or so. Also, its camera is quite nice, about the same as my first digi cam. The only thing that is not nice is the two buttons on the inside that are right up next to the bottom of the top screen and the hinge. I got shovel fingers and its a bit of a pain gettin em. But overall its quite good... not quite the dogs bollocks, but good enough for me. It basically replaced my Treo which was poop.

I SMS around 1000 to 1500 times per month. So, I think it will be good for me. I am just worried about going to a bar style phone from a flip. But, I have been considering going to a PDA phone for a while, so this might just be a logical progression for me.

How is the voice quality on the phone?

Voice quality is good... for the market... i use a moto bt headset and it sounds fine... better than my treo but not quite as nice as my 815. But that difference is not that much of a nevermind if you ask me. I like the other features and that I can txt a book in bout a minute.

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:

SForsyth01 said:

RUFF1415 said:
Anxio, Telephia has ranked Cingular's network as the top provider in countless markets across the U.S. for years. I think that Telephia's results actually can prove a point though, because they are drive testing the network as opposed to surveying customers on their opinion of a copmany. Cingular ranking tops in these tests are nothing new, that's for sure.

Except that a customer's opinion and a customer's overall experience is what really matters. You know that, Ruff. If a company has a bad perception in the eyes of the public, it really doesn't

...
(continues)

Simply enough, the network is going to be most consumer's first priority. You can't use JD Powers and Consumer Reports to knock that.

BUT.....

Time and time again drive tests are conducted country wide with thousands upon thousands of calls tested PER MARKET

While customer surveys still only monitor a very small % of the overall customer base, and they only do it in select markets.

Verizon is still an awesome company but as I always say things are most accurate regionally. And when I say regionally, I don't mean the 6 or 8 many magazines use. There are over 100 markets across the country. Things aren't always as neat and tidy as consumer reports and JD Powers like to make them. Verizon's dominance in Southern CA (two markets for example) helps them dominate a huge region for consumer reports since they survey so many from LA. Cingular dominates much of the Mi...
(continues)

texaswireless said:
BUT.....

Time and time again drive tests are conducted country wide with thousands upon thousands of calls tested PER MARKET

While customer surveys still only monitor a very small % of the overall customer base, and they only do it in select markets.

Verizon is still an awesome company but as I always say things are most accurate regionally. And when I say regionally, I don't mean the 6 or 8 many magazines use. There are over 100 markets across the country. Things aren't always as neat and tidy as consumer reports and JD Powers like to make them. Verizon's dominance in Southern CA (two markets for example) helps them dominate a huge region for consumer reports since they survey so many fro

...
(continues)

All of which sidesteps Stan Sigman's own comments that Cingular does NOT have the best network yet. C'mon Ruff.

And yeah, its perfectly ok for JD Power an' Consumer Reports to rate carriers based on customer surveys. 'Cus in the end, who actually uses the networks? The customer. Are you sayin' that the customer is not qualified to know how good or bad his own cell service is?

And Cingular bein' really good only just in some places? Well, yeah. JD Power gave Cingular high marks in the Northeast an' in the Texas-Oklahoma area. In most other places, they were not so good. An' Consumer Reports rated Cingular anywhere from mid-pack to last in all 18 of the metro areas they rated this year. Cingular's best scores were in Dallas, Houston, an'...
(continues)

You are missing the point! JD Powers and Consumer Reports do not base their results on factual test drives, they base them on customer opinion of the overall company, not the network.

Drive tests are targeting the network.

Surveys are targeting the company as a whole(including customer service, prices, billing, offerings, and network). NOT just the network.

Taking the JD Powers and Consumer Reports results and simply applying them to the network is idiotic, at best. Okay, so because half of Cingluar users were upset with customer service and they ended up recieving a bad score, we can justifiably say that the network sucks? I don't think so.

Hey Ruff, not answering the statement that even Cingular's president admits that VZW's network is better?

I did in another post. Thanks? 🙄

Ruff, I think everyone gets the distinction you is tryin' to make. Which is that the results in customer surveys are not 100% about the network.. they also are about things like bad customer service, billing issues, etc. Thats all a given.

But, I think it'd be silly for anyone to say that the network DOESN'T enter into what customers think of their carrier. After all, like you basically said in another post, what good is a carrier if you can't make calls where an' when you want?

SystemShock said:
Ruff, I think everyone gets the distinction you is tryin' to make. Which is that the results in customer surveys are not 100% about the network.. they also are about things like bad customer service, billing issues, etc. Thats all a given.

But, I think it'd be silly for anyone to say that the network DOESN'T enter into what customers think of their carrier. After all, like you basically said in another post, what good is a carrier if you can't make calls where an' when you want?

And my point was that you can with Cingular, according to Telephia's drive tests for the past several years, much to the "contradiction" of JD Powers and Consumer Reports.

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:
Ruff, I think everyone gets the distinction you is tryin' to make. Which is that the results in customer surveys are not 100% about the network.. they also are about things like bad customer service, billing issues, etc. Thats all a given.

But, I think it'd be silly for anyone to say that the network DOESN'T enter into what customers think of their carrier. After all, like you basically said in another post, what good is a carrier if you can't make calls where an' when you want?

And my point was that you can with Cingular, according to Telephia's drive tests for the past several years, much to the "contradiction" of JD Powers and Consumer Reports.

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

SystemShock said:
And my point was that you can with Cingular, according to Telephia's drive tests for the past several years, much to the "contradiction" of JD Powers and Consumer Reports.

But not to the contradiction of Cingular's own CEO, Stan Sigman.

Sry, my bad. Should say:

And also to the contradiction of Cingular's own CEO, Stan Sigman.

RUFF1415 said:

You seem to be forgetting that afterall, Verizon bases their own claims of network superiority on their own personal drive tests. The exact same kind of drive tests that Telephia performs. Why is it that Verizon makes claim based upon their own testing that they operate the most reliable network, when a third party company such as Telephia that is performing the same tests proves this isn't necessarily true?

Maybe it has something to do with which handsets are used for Telephia's tests, and who supplies those handsets? I don't happen to have client access to see the actual reports, so I can only guess who supplies the handsets they test with.

FWIW... 😈

Telaphia is probably doing a fine testing job based upon the type of data that THEY collect. That's fine, but...

The point that you are still missing is that Reader Scores of subscribers' own satisfaction levels, and their own ratings of their carriers' Performance in the four network-specific areas studied, are why subscribers stay with or change carriers.

When ACTUAL SUBSCRIBERS choose to vote with their feet and wallets, the churn rate of the carriers will reflect which are the more satisfying, best performing carriers in the minds of those who count most. They are the subscribers who decide where their money is best spent. They are also the ones who let their friends and relations know about their personal experien...
(continues)

Well, thanks to WLNP, complete wireless penetration (or saturation), wireless subsidies, and other factors getting an accurate read on the market is near impossible. One dropped call on VZW's superior network could lead to an unhappy subscriber.

The only way to receive more accurate data (which both Telephia to the best of my knowledge and C.R. DON'T do) is begin surveys with point-blank questions about how much a subscriber knows about wireless. Q1: Did you know wireless signal is affected by trees, falling rocks, and robot attacks? By starting off with that they can better analyze if the subscriber is unhappy with something out of the carrier's control or just unhappy... Also include questions that lead the subscriber to root out ...
(continues)