The TRUE debate.
Hypothetically: I am a customer that lives in such an area that Cingular and VZW have EQUAL signal strength in all the areas that I go to.
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
Lets also say I have researched phones and have found at least 1 phone that I like with each carrier. For sake of argument I like the LG VX6000 and the LG L1200 but I am open to other phones with similar features.
What would you tell me in order to sway me to your carrier?
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
Lets also say I have researched phones and have found at least 1 phone that I like with each carrier. For sake of argument I like the LG VX6000 and the LG L1200 but I am open to other phones with similar features.
What would you tell me in order to sway me to your carrier?
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VZWCustServ said:
Hypothetically: I am a customer that lives in such an area that Cingular and VZW have EQUAL signal strength in all the areas that I go to.
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
Lets also say I have researched phones and have found at least 1 phone that I like with each carrier. For sake of argument I like the LG VX6000 and the LG L1200 but I am open to other phones with similar features.
What would you tell me in order to sway me to your carrier?
I wouldnt say anything to sway you but I'd suggest looking at the Samsung A790 if you do happen to travel internationally, still...
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chris_lt1 said:...VZWCustServ said:
Hypothetically: I am a customer that lives in such an area that Cingular and VZW have EQUAL signal strength in all the areas that I go to.
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
Lets also say I have researched phones and have found at least 1 phone that I like with each carrier. For sake of argument I like the LG VX6000 and the LG L1200 but I am open to other phones with similar features.
What would you tell me in order to sway me to your carrier?
I wouldnt say anything to sway you but I'd suggest looking at the Samsung A790 if you do hap
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muchdrama said:
Still, though...if you're even entertaining the idea of international travel, Cingular's the way to go. Or Tmobile. Or ATTWS.
How do you figure since you can use VZW and CDMA in the U.S. but still use Vodaphon GSM service internationally???
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chris_lt1 said:I think any of the three carriers I mentioned are FAR better equipped to meet an international traveler's needs.muchdrama said:
Still, though...if you're even entertaining the idea of international travel, Cingular's the way to go. Or Tmobile. Or ATTWS.
How do you figure since you can use VZW and CDMA in the U.S. but still use Vodaphon GSM service internationally???
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muchdrama said:chris_lt1 said:I think any of the three carriers I mentioned are FAR better equipped to meet an international traveler's needs.muchdrama said:
Still, though...if you're even entertaining the idea of international travel, Cingular's the way to go. Or Tmobile. Or ATTWS.
How do you figure since you can use VZW and CDMA in the U.S. but still use Vodaphon GSM service internationally???
I'll repeat myself...
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
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VZWCustServ said:Don't go getting snotty ...muchdrama said:chris_lt1 said:I think any of the three carriers I mentioned are FAR better equipped to meet an international traveler's needs.muchdrama said:
Still, though...if you're even entertaining the idea of international travel, Cingular's the way to go. Or Tmobile. Or ATTWS.
How do you figure since you can use VZW and CDMA in the U.S. but still use Vodaphon GSM service internationally???
I'll repeat myself...
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
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phonepimp3376 said:
All of Cingular's worldphones come unlocked.
maybe I should send my ATTWS buddies to you then cuz they're always complaining that their phones aren't unlocked and they have to pay to have it done
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Dammit pimp... you were batting 100 until just now. Cingular sells NO unlocked phones. Even the quadband phones and world phones. They purposely lock it so you can't get a euro/asian sim card and get really good international rates. As a matter of fact, Cingular WILL provide an UNLOCK CODE IF you are out of contract and DO NOT HAVE international roaming features on your account. If you have those features they will not unlock your phone. There ARE Cingular AGENTS that sell unlocked phones, but Cingular does not.
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CainMarko said:
Dammit pimp... you were batting 100 until just now. Cingular sells NO unlocked phones. Even the quadband phones and world phones. They purposely lock it so you can't get a euro/asian sim card and get really good international rates. As a matter of fact, Cingular WILL provide an UNLOCK CODE IF you are out of contract and DO NOT HAVE international roaming features on your account. If you have those features they will not unlock your phone. There ARE Cingular AGENTS that sell unlocked phones, but Cingular does not.
How does it work if you have a euro/asian phone and want to activate it with ATTWS or Cingular? will they let you or are they going to give the customers grief on that?
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CainMarko said:Oh no! A rift develops between two life-long friends! Tragic! Will they kiss and make up? Tune in next post for "What am I Doing In on a Saturday Night Posting?".
Dammit pimp... you were batting 100 until just now. Cingular sells NO unlocked phones. Even the quadband phones and world phones. They purposely lock it so you can't get a euro/asian sim card and get really good international rates. As a matter of fact, Cingular WILL provide an UNLOCK CODE IF you are out of contract and DO NOT HAVE international roaming features on your account. If you have those features they will not unlock your phone. There ARE Cingular AGENTS that sell unlocked phones, but Cingular does not.
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I don't know if anyone corrected Cain, but all of cingular's world phones are unlocked. I work for a c/o store and they come from the warehouse unlocked.
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i've stuck other companies sim cards into a v400 and a v600 and they worked... even nextel popped up on one, it just didn't get a signal.
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muchdrama said:I think any of the three carriers I mentioned are FAR better equipped to meet an international traveler's needs.
How do you figure since you can use VZW and CDMA in the U.S. but still use Vodaphon GSM service internationally???
I still disagree as it is just as easy for an A790 user to jump on a plane and instantly use their phone overseas once they arive since the SIM information is already on their account with VZW when they buy and activate the phone....how are the other carriers any more convenient
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Here are some 'closer-to-home' reasons for Cingular. While I will admit that once it is fully deployed, EV-DO will have slightly higher downstream than EDGE, Cingular has been a leader in wireless data for a long time, so there is more content available. GPRS/EDGE has been deployed internationally as well, so it travels better.
Also, unlike Verizon, Cingular's all-digital network means all features work everywhere on net. Add to that the fact that Cingular has the largest talk for free calling area in wireless, since Mobile to Mobile is nationwide, not limited to a certain calling area, as are night and weekend minutes. Nationwide LD includes Puerto Rico, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the Mariana Islands.
Cingular has a much better ...
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Also, unlike Verizon, Cingular's all-digital network means all features work everywhere on net. Add to that the fact that Cingular has the largest talk for free calling area in wireless, since Mobile to Mobile is nationwide, not limited to a certain calling area, as are night and weekend minutes. Nationwide LD includes Puerto Rico, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the Mariana Islands.
Cingular has a much better ...
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phonepimp3376 said:...
Here are some 'closer-to-home' reasons for Cingular. While I will admit that once it is fully deployed, EV-DO will have slightly higher downstream than EDGE, Cingular has been a leader in wireless data for a long time, so there is more content available. GPRS/EDGE has been deployed internationally as well, so it travels better.
Also, unlike Verizon, Cingular's all-digital network means all features work everywhere on net. Add to that the fact that Cingular has the largest talk for free calling area in wireless, since Mobile to Mobile is nationwide, not limited to a certain calling area, as are night and weekend minutes. Nationwide LD includes Puerto Rico, Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and the Mariana
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phonepimp3376 said:Well then, you'll be proud of me. I actually told a customer (when he desperately asked me for truth...the poor bastard's getting data using a Nextel phone at 20kbps) that EDGE was his current best bet for data. With EV DO still at least 6 months out (and even then it should only be reaching a third of Verizon's subscriber base), and Tmobile still contemplating E...
Here are some 'closer-to-home' reasons for Cingular. While I will admit that once it is fully deployed, EV-DO will have slightly higher downstream than EDGE, Cingular has been a leader in wireless data for a long time, so there is more content available. GPRS/EDGE has been deployed internationally as well, so it travels better.
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muchdrama said:
I really hate lying to a customer to get his business.
what kind of salesman are you...commision, commision first, always? J/K
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chris_lt1 said:Actually I'm an STS Tech Manager with Circuit City (ooooooooo...big title! it basically means management schlub). No commission here, buddy. In fact...no commission anywhere at CC.muchdrama said:
I really hate lying to a customer to get his business.
what kind of salesman are you...commision, commision first, always? J/K
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phonepimp3376 said:Goshdammit, Pimp! What the ****'s a bennie? If it's an Irish term, remember...I've been inundated with South Florida crap culture. As for the pay...no hourly here...I'm actually salaried. Yay!
Now THAT has to suck...hope the hourly and bennies are good
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muchdrama said:phonepimp3376 said:Goshdammit, Pimp! What the ****'s a bennie? If it's an Irish term, remember...I've been inundated with South Florida crap culture. As for the pay...no hourly here...I'm actually salaried. Yay!
Now THAT has to suck...hope the hourly and bennies are good
benefits
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bennies = benefits. How did you guys ever make it through a day without me? Geez! 😁
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phonepimp3376 said:When you're not here I bug Cain. As for benefits...they're quite good. I'm happy. Hell...I have PPO health insurance.
bennies = benefits. How did you guys ever make it through a day without me? Geez! 😁
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lmao muchdrama... when you're not here I stick pins in a little 85 percent doll I made
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phonepimp3376 said:
lmao muchdrama... when you're not here I stick pins in a little 85 percent doll I made
cmon now, he's just doing his job, you think I or any other rep would be unbiased about their service when you're at work....which happens to be primarily based on commision?
I know this isnt work but there are some potential customers cruising these forums
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There is a difference between doing one's job, and knowing one's job. The 'we are God, you suck' approach not only turns people off, but does them a disservice, and in the end will cost him more than it gains him. One of the reasons I do so well is simply this: If a customer is shopping other carriers, I HELP them. Show them the pros and cons of the carriers they are looking at, using my materials and the other company's website. If Cingular DOESN'T fit them best, I tell them that.
You know what happens most often? They sign a contract with ME, because I treated them fairly, helped them more than most would, and was willing to let them go. That shows a commitment to the CUSTOMER, not the COMMISSION. And it winds up giving me a commission 99...
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You know what happens most often? They sign a contract with ME, because I treated them fairly, helped them more than most would, and was willing to let them go. That shows a commitment to the CUSTOMER, not the COMMISSION. And it winds up giving me a commission 99...
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phonepimp3376 said:...
There is a difference between doing one's job, and knowing one's job. The 'we are God, you suck' approach not only turns people off, but does them a disservice, and in the end will cost him more than it gains him. One of the reasons I do so well is simply this: If a customer is shopping other carriers, I HELP them. Show them the pros and cons of the carriers they are looking at, using my materials and the other company's website. If Cingular DOESN'T fit them best, I tell them that.
You know what happens most often? They sign a contract with ME, because I treated them fairly, helped them more than most would, and was willing to let them go. That shows a commitment to the CUSTOMER, not the COMMISSION. A
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Chris... you always show me a little something that makes me like you...even when we're screaming at each other!
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phonepimp3376 said:
Chris... you always show me a little something that makes me like you...even when we're screaming at each other!
I could say the same, you and muchdrama have always had my respect since you will always back up your arguments with facts rather than saying "oh yeah, you know, that one article"
....but if you're looking to hold hands and walk away into the sunset im gonna have to slap you 🤣
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phonepimp3376 said:...
There is a difference between doing one's job, and knowing one's job. The 'we are God, you suck' approach not only turns people off, but does them a disservice, and in the end will cost him more than it gains him. One of the reasons I do so well is simply this: If a customer is shopping other carriers, I HELP them. Show them the pros and cons of the carriers they are looking at, using my materials and the other company's website. If Cingular DOESN'T fit them best, I tell them that.
You know what happens most often? They sign a contract with ME, because I treated them fairly, helped them more than most would, and was willing to let them go. That shows a commitment to the CUSTOMER, not the COMMISSION. A
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chris_lt1 said:Well, I think that was a little bit of good humor on Pimp's part. As for extolling the virtues of Verizon unrelentingly...pfft, I could care less about all that. I have Verizon and Tmobile in my store (and I'm a Verizon subscriber myself), but I'm not going to hold back on the benefits of competito...phonepimp3376 said:
lmao muchdrama... when you're not here I stick pins in a little 85 percent doll I made
cmon now, he's just doing his job, you think I or any other rep would be unbiased about their service when you're at work....which happens to be primarily based on commision?
I know this isnt work but there are some potential customers cruising these forums
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phonepimp3376 said:Is that why he's so irritable?
lmao muchdrama... when you're not here I stick pins in a little 85 percent doll I made
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Sounds like the Nextel customer was usins the circuit data service - as slow as dial-up. I use Nextel's packet data service and get ~50-80 kps.
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southwestcomm said:Well...he was complaining of never doing better than 20kbps. Still...what I said about EDGE is correct...right now it's the best alternative out there.
Sounds like the Nextel customer was usins the circuit data service - as slow as dial-up. I use Nextel's packet data service and get ~50-80 kps.
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Because for one, Cingular and ATTWS cover over 200 countries between them. Vodafone is large, but not THAT large. Plus, rather than having to manually put your phone into GSM mode as you do with the Samsung, a GSM worldphone does this automatically. Most GSM features would be available internationally, this is not the case with the CDMA/GSM phone.
Cingular also specializes in international roaming, and has for a while. SO their offerings in this area will be more complete than the Samsung or VZW will be.
Cingular also specializes in international roaming, and has for a while. SO their offerings in this area will be more complete than the Samsung or VZW will be.
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phonepimp3376 said:
Because for one, Cingular and ATTWS cover over 200 countries between them. Vodafone is large, but not THAT large. Plus, rather than having to manually put your phone into GSM mode as you do with the Samsung, a GSM worldphone does this automatically. Most GSM features would be available internationally, this is not the case with the CDMA/GSM phone.
Cingular also specializes in international roaming, and has for a while. SO their offerings in this area will be more complete than the Samsung or VZW will be.
Give it some time and Im sure Vodaphone and VZW will figure all of the feature conflicts though like we've done with OnStar and Airfone service, as far as the manual configuration an...
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chris_lt1 said:...phonepimp3376 said:
Because for one, Cingular and ATTWS cover over 200 countries between them. Vodafone is large, but not THAT large. Plus, rather than having to manually put your phone into GSM mode as you do with the Samsung, a GSM worldphone does this automatically. Most GSM features would be available internationally, this is not the case with the CDMA/GSM phone.
Cingular also specializes in international roaming, and has for a while. SO their offerings in this area will be more complete than the Samsung or VZW will be.
Give it some time and Im sure Vodaphone and VZW will figure all of the feature conflicts though like we've done with OnStar and Airfone service, a
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muchdrama said:
Wait...you'll believe him and not me? Pfft. What's up with THAT?
it has nothing to do with that, its just that on the other posts it was more of a sales pitch, I've got to represent......you know that lol
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chris_lt1 said:Pfft.muchdrama said:
Wait...you'll believe him and not me? Pfft. What's up with THAT?
it has nothing to do with that, its just that on the other posts it was more of a sales pitch, I've got to represent......you know that lol
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Oh come on, guys. T-Mo, Cingular and ATTWS hype international roaming as if the entire American population did it. Yes, international roaming (in Europe anyway) is more seamless with the GSM carriers. Why not ask about roaming in South Korea, where CDMA is king?
In reality however only about 5% of Americans travel abroad in any given year. For customers that frequently do their best bet is GSM. But my customers only care about talking from across town and at the park. In the NW GSM has almost no footprint. Not even the entire Seattle metro area is covered by ATTWS, Cingular or T-Mo. ATTWS has a 1/2 mile wide dead spot on I-405, also known as parking lot 405. T-Mo has no coverage in East Bellevue and very little in Redmond (Microsoftland) C...
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In reality however only about 5% of Americans travel abroad in any given year. For customers that frequently do their best bet is GSM. But my customers only care about talking from across town and at the park. In the NW GSM has almost no footprint. Not even the entire Seattle metro area is covered by ATTWS, Cingular or T-Mo. ATTWS has a 1/2 mile wide dead spot on I-405, also known as parking lot 405. T-Mo has no coverage in East Bellevue and very little in Redmond (Microsoftland) C...
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This may be true but we all know that Cingular won't be stupid enough to sit back and not fix these problems after the merger.
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No they won't be that stupid, they are dumb like a fox. If you knew how much ATTWS western markets have deteriorated then you would realize they have years and billions of dollars of investments only in order to catch Verizon's current status.
Every ATTWS tower is built for economy, so not only are there not enough of them, they are in desperate need of upgrade.
The real reason people stayed with them was that they could not take their number with them. With WLNP come open floodgates. Some of our stores are doing hundreds of ports each month and only about 10% of our customer traffic is wireless.
The only other thing that kept ATTWS afloat was the great tradition of the AT&T name. Take that name away and you have an inferior company wi...
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Every ATTWS tower is built for economy, so not only are there not enough of them, they are in desperate need of upgrade.
The real reason people stayed with them was that they could not take their number with them. With WLNP come open floodgates. Some of our stores are doing hundreds of ports each month and only about 10% of our customer traffic is wireless.
The only other thing that kept ATTWS afloat was the great tradition of the AT&T name. Take that name away and you have an inferior company wi...
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SPCSVZWJeff said:
The only other thing that kept ATTWS afloat was the great tradition of the AT&T name. Take that name away and you have an inferior company with the attitude of a monopoly. (we don't care, we don't have to) Whenever there was a downturn in revenues the first people to get pink slips were engineers and customer service people. So what they were left with was a deteriorating network with few people to maintain it and fewer people to help soothe customer frustrations.
Yeah, I used to work for AT&T LD custserv, and the 'protocols' for any billing issue, was, 'f*** off, you HAD to make the call, because we billed you.' Even collect calls that they state they never accepted...
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SPCSVZWJeff said:...
Oh come on, guys. T-Mo, Cingular and ATTWS hype international roaming as if the entire American population did it. Yes, international roaming (in Europe anyway) is more seamless with the GSM carriers. Why not ask about roaming in South Korea, where CDMA is king?
In reality however only about 5% of Americans travel abroad in any given year. For customers that frequently do their best bet is GSM. But my customers only care about talking from across town and at the park. In the NW GSM has almost no footprint. Not even the entire Seattle metro area is covered by ATTWS, Cingular or T-Mo. ATTWS has a 1/2 mile wide dead spot on I-405, also known as parking lot 405. T-Mo has no coverage in East Bellevue and ve
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VZWCustServ said:
Hypothetically: I am a customer that lives in such an area that Cingular and VZW have EQUAL signal strength in all the areas that I go to.
Both have equal coverage in the areas you frequent. Now being that I am not in sales, but CS I personally would let the customer know what plans we have at the time. This is really going to be a choice based on the winds of change and where they take this customer. Both companies offer a price plan structure to fit the average user. Both have a 15 day return policy so try them out. See which one works best for you because no matter what a signal presense in a given city is, there is going to be dead spots or low signal areas.
VZWCustS...
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Actually, I was going to come back with the statement that if you think you have to unlock a Cingular worldphone to use it abroad you're sadly mistaken. Our worldphones work just fine overseas without unlocking. If you are going to use them PRIMARILY overseas, that would be a diiferent story.
While GSM is all over the world, Vodaphone is not. Are they large? yes. Do they provide the roaming opportunities that Cingular does? No.
Not a lot of difference, huh? How about the largest call for free coverage area in the US? How about M2M that isn't regional or limited, but available NATIONWIDE? How about N&W that works the same way? How about in that international scenario, The Global Phone customer will not have access to many of his feature...
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While GSM is all over the world, Vodaphone is not. Are they large? yes. Do they provide the roaming opportunities that Cingular does? No.
Not a lot of difference, huh? How about the largest call for free coverage area in the US? How about M2M that isn't regional or limited, but available NATIONWIDE? How about N&W that works the same way? How about in that international scenario, The Global Phone customer will not have access to many of his feature...
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See, I read the fine prints Phonepimp. How about that MTM huh? Ok, read the fine print, M2M for Cingular only works on the GSM network. VZW works on our digital network.
N&W minutes? WTH are you talking about there? N&W minutes work just fine with VZW both on our network and when on our roaming partners(ala the extended network).
Ok, you have a point on Global Phone.....which has been out less than a month. Sorry, but I know of nothing that has EVER been brand new that came out fully loaded and had no room for improvement. It's a start though, but that wasn't the initial focus of the question here.
As for accessing features while traveling overseas, again it is new. Also, again I point out that was not a major part of the scenario,...
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N&W minutes? WTH are you talking about there? N&W minutes work just fine with VZW both on our network and when on our roaming partners(ala the extended network).
Ok, you have a point on Global Phone.....which has been out less than a month. Sorry, but I know of nothing that has EVER been brand new that came out fully loaded and had no room for improvement. It's a start though, but that wasn't the initial focus of the question here.
As for accessing features while traveling overseas, again it is new. Also, again I point out that was not a major part of the scenario,...
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Cingular charges up to $1.99/minute for intl roaming.
That's just like our intl traveler program.
Oh yeah, you charged twice as much if someone leaves a voicemail msg for you
That's just like our intl traveler program.
Oh yeah, you charged twice as much if someone leaves a voicemail msg for you
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Go to Cingular.com, you can get all the info about intl roaming (as Cingular calls it)
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dakz said:
See, I read the fine prints Phonepimp. How about that MTM huh? Ok, read the fine print, M2M for Cingular only works on the GSM network. VZW works on our digital network.
it works on your enhanced network, a lot smaller than your digital network. you should know that. you should also know that our GSM digital network is a lot larger than your enhanced network.
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The GSM network, if you bothered to look, IS our network, not a subnetwork like the enhanced services network. What's your point. Our WHOLE network is GSM. God don't you people keep up with the industry news? The GSM overlay of our ENTIRE network is complete!
Trying to compare apples and oranges, Dakz.
Trying to compare apples and oranges, Dakz.
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We have the largest call for free calling area in the country, dakz. Get over it.
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well Phone pimp, with our network it's still calling for free.....as long as you're not over on your minutes...hehehe
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: cruises up to VZWMan in his all-chrome pimpmobile : Whatchu talkin bout, foo?
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you talkin back to me??? Powder me again...I thought you woulda learned your lesson the first time....what did the 5 fingers say to the face.....SLAP!!!!
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of course we can...lol...we're all in the same boat...just some of us are first class and some are in the engineroom of the ship. let's see what kind of backlash I get from that analogie
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The folks in first class drowned in style, but they still drowned...lol
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I've misplaced my ticket, I don't where I sit. I guess I'll just....um???....i don't know
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I'll keep an i out for them cingular pirates. rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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schnozejt... you didn't HAVE a ticket, buddy... we brought you along for comedy relief.
Almost used you for the ANCHOR, but that's 85percent's job
Almost used you for the ANCHOR, but that's 85percent's job
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your just full of sunshine this morning. what happened? bad coffee? dropped a call (or two)🤣
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TheVZWMan said:
of course we can...lol...we're all in the same boat...just some of us are first class and some are in the engineroom of the ship. let's see what kind of backlash I get from that analogie
Capn, the wee bairns canna handle the stress! AAAGH, me bairns!!!
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Yeah pimp, m2m that is available in all the places GSM works, like freeway corridors. Cingular coverage in Centralia-Chehalis, WA (Olympia BTA)is kaput 100 yards off of I-5 Cingular customers can't even talk inside the Chehalis WalMart which is 1/4 mile off of the busiest freeway in the Northwest. I'm sorry, but your coverage maps are skewed. much of your roaming coverage is on ATTWS and we know how accurate their coverage maps are. They love high sites that have vertical radials and scatter signal across the hill tops and ignore the human activity in the valleys. GSM coverage may be good in the East but here in the West It is scandalously poor at best.
The Qwest deal is going to make VZW's Western coverage even more solid. There is no WA o...
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The Qwest deal is going to make VZW's Western coverage even more solid. There is no WA o...
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Jeff, first off, our coverage is within 5 percent of your own. And what is this delusion that you can't roam off Cingular's network?
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Did you see anywhere where I stated your network had less coverage area or compare their areas?
Also, where did you see me say anything about not being able to roam off Cingular's network. I pointed out that per the fine print on www.cingular.com M2M only works on the GSM network.
Also, where did you see me say anything about not being able to roam off Cingular's network. I pointed out that per the fine print on www.cingular.com M2M only works on the GSM network.
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No delusion, just the limitations of incompatible technologies. GSM is not at all well built out in the West. You are from the Northeast, where both ATTWS and Cingular have things well in hand on their GSM network. In the West it is a different matter. There is not even GSM coverage by any of the three major players in the entire metro areas of most Western metros. True we have less urban sprawl than in the East, but we also drive more miles and further from the city centers than Easterners. Therefore coverage needs to be wider. Verizon, Alltel, U.S. Cellular and Sprint understand this. Cingular, T-Mobile and ATTWS don't. When there is no GSM coverage inside the entire city limits of most Western cities it begs a question of the quality of t...
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I think that everybody is forgetting the fact that VZW is the only service I know of that you can use your phone indoors. I've had T-mobile, sprint and VZW.
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As ATTWS and Cingular expand 850 MHz, that will change. 850 penetrates construction better than 1900 MHz.
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And how much will this cost these companies? I'm unsure of how much it will cost them to make this move...The reason I ask is that they will have to spend money just to catch up, let alone be the best. I have doubts concerning the depth of their pockets and their ability to hit the ground running at the conclusion of their merger proceedings.
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Well, the techmologies are identical, so there won't be any changeover costs. We bought EVERYTHING for our 41 Billion. There will be some costs associated with improving the consistency of service between the two networks, but that would be the case in any merger. SBC and BellSouth are fully supportive of the buyout, and have VERY deep pockets. We are also having steady growth on our own, and ARPU is up quarter to quarter. We can fund much of it ourselves. It won't be an instant thing, but withing the first 30-60 days I think their will be major improvements across the board. NO ONE has ever undertaken a wireless merger of this magnitude, so will it take time? Yuppers. But there is no one with more experience in handling this kind of thing t...
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You make some valid points, but ATT appears to be dead in the water. Tmobile would have made alot more sense in the long run as far as a merger. I'm interested to see the second quarter results. ATT lost customers last quarter, and I see more and more port every day to other carriers.
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ATT is far from dead in the water my friend. T-Mobile did not make sense for a number of reasons.
1. Single band GSM as opposed to dual band
2. Much smaller network coverage with very little new coverage.
3. T-Mobile controls a ton less spectrum than ATT
4. T-Mobile not as strong internationally, or in B2B.
5. No vendor advantages to T-Mobile.
and I could continue. What ATT is doing now is on them, what we do once the deal closes is on us.
1. Single band GSM as opposed to dual band
2. Much smaller network coverage with very little new coverage.
3. T-Mobile controls a ton less spectrum than ATT
4. T-Mobile not as strong internationally, or in B2B.
5. No vendor advantages to T-Mobile.
and I could continue. What ATT is doing now is on them, what we do once the deal closes is on us.
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The real cost of improving ATTWS is more than you think. 30-90 days will only allow you to assess the damage. Except for installing GSM ATTWS has not done anything to their network in years. Places where customers could talk a few years ago are no longer covered. These are not the result of tweaking to improve service in more strategic areas it is the result of short sightedness and neglect. All the money went to GSM conversion so the rest of the network suffers. Add this to the cost of building a new WCDMA network nationwide and the cost is staggering. IS-95 was extremely expensive for CDMA carriers, WCDMA is going to be even more so for GSM carriers. Cingular will need to in essence build the ATTWS markets from the ground up. Why do you th...
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will WCDMA be expensive? sure. Will it cripple us? Not by a long shot. But everyone seems to think that WCDMA will require REPLACING equipment. This is not the case. It can be overlaid to the existing equipment, Will it happen overnight? Again, no. Trust me when I say Cingular knows EXACTLY what they will have to do, and will do it effeciently and well, and come away from it the premiere wireless carrier in America. It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen.
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Ok, so why are you busting on VZW for not having certain features now that we are working on, and are allowed to crow about Cingular's future offerings, but those of us at VZW are uninformed or arrogant for doing just what you are doing now?
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Because initially this post was designed to have people try to sway a hypothetical customer to one side or the other, VZW or Cingular. I didn't START this post, I simply PARTICIPATED in it, and played by the ground rules laid down. But as is the case so often with VZW, state facts, back them up, and get pounced on because the TRUTH HURTS! You guys have had a hell of a lot longer than 1991 when Cingular was born to 'work on it'... notice is being served... WE HAVE IT RIGHT ALREADY!
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The truth hurts? What truth are you talking about?
Map reading 101 for PP:
See that red area on the VZW map? That's OUR digital network. This is where our features like Get It Now and Mobile Web work. Nights & Weekends, M2M and such as well.
See that pink portion of the map. That's our roaming partners digital network, I know it is kinda small because the red covers so much more. This is where things like N&W still work, but M2M and Geti It Now don't work.
See the white, I know, even smaller area. That's where we don't have a roaming partner or network so you would see roaming on your phone.
Boy, looking at that map you sure have me stumped PP and Cain as to where the Cingular map of the GSM network is bigger. The other maps a...
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Map reading 101 for PP:
See that red area on the VZW map? That's OUR digital network. This is where our features like Get It Now and Mobile Web work. Nights & Weekends, M2M and such as well.
See that pink portion of the map. That's our roaming partners digital network, I know it is kinda small because the red covers so much more. This is where things like N&W still work, but M2M and Geti It Now don't work.
See the white, I know, even smaller area. That's where we don't have a roaming partner or network so you would see roaming on your phone.
Boy, looking at that map you sure have me stumped PP and Cain as to where the Cingular map of the GSM network is bigger. The other maps a...
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What YOU don't seem to get is this: WE DON'T NEED A SECOND NETWORK TO HANDLE ALL THE OTHER STUFF!!! We don'r have restricted areas for M2M where you get CHARGED outside that area. While it might WORK on VZW's network, they take away from anytime minutes if you are outside a cretain area. WE DON'T. While N&W minutes might work, same story, outside a certain area, they get charged. NOT WITH US!
What part of this is so hard to understand?
What part of this is so hard to understand?
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You are missing my point. I am saying so what. VZW offers viable features in areas where the majority of the market share is looking to use those features. VZW is ALWAYS improving it's network. Am I saying it is perfect? Far from it, just like Cingular's network is far from perfect. Understand that?
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You do, why does Cingular have three coverage maps?
Same reason we have two.
Do also keep in mind when you look at our coverage map w/ out the agreements w/ other carriers it is comparable in size to yours. I do agree w/ you there
Same reason we have two.
Do also keep in mind when you look at our coverage map w/ out the agreements w/ other carriers it is comparable in size to yours. I do agree w/ you there
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Given we agree that coverage is similar in size. Do also take into consideration how many more call a CDMA tower can handle in comparison to a GSM(TDMA) tower.
There was link from a prior thread that linked to an unbiased website giving all the info about the different technologies. It clearly states CDMA is better 🙂 😁
There was link from a prior thread that linked to an unbiased website giving all the info about the different technologies. It clearly states CDMA is better 🙂 😁
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I guess I missed the link. The only one I remember being posted recently was the one written by one of the devolopers of CDMA, which I wouldn't call unbiased. I would love to see it if you find it.
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All that will become a moot point after UMTS/WCDMA deployment anyways.
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here it is. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-pho ne.htm/printable
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What three are you referring to?
We have our GSM network... this is network we market.
We have GAIT, which is our GSM network with TDMA and Analog capabilities.
We have our Mobitex network, which has nothing to do with either of those, but is the network RIM interactive devices work on. Nothing there for voice.
And we have the Blackberry XPress Mail network, which is the network that supports wireless email for Blackberry. Again has nothing to do with voice. If a co-mingled Blackberry needs voice support, that would go
GAIT was a bridge technology during the TDMA to GSM upgrade, and accounts for very few new activations. Cingular will most likely convert the TDMA remaining in GAIT to GSM, if they haven't already.
What three ...
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We have our GSM network... this is network we market.
We have GAIT, which is our GSM network with TDMA and Analog capabilities.
We have our Mobitex network, which has nothing to do with either of those, but is the network RIM interactive devices work on. Nothing there for voice.
And we have the Blackberry XPress Mail network, which is the network that supports wireless email for Blackberry. Again has nothing to do with voice. If a co-mingled Blackberry needs voice support, that would go
GAIT was a bridge technology during the TDMA to GSM upgrade, and accounts for very few new activations. Cingular will most likely convert the TDMA remaining in GAIT to GSM, if they haven't already.
What three ...
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Ok, if I am reading your maps correctly let me break this up so you understand this. You stated earlier you sold VZW before, but then in another post say "Mobile Web or whatever that is" so let me use your 3 breakdowns to show you what I am talking about.
This is the VZW part of the map with the M2M and the N&W
This is the map that has the Analog and Extended network with no M2M but still has N&W
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phonepimp3376 said:
What three are you referring to?
We have our GSM network... this is network we market.
This is the VZW part of the map with the M2M and the N&W
phonepimp3376 said:
We have GAIT, which is our GSM network with TDMA and Analog capabilities.
This is the map that has the Analog and Extended network with no M2M but still has N&W
phonepimp3376 said:...
We have our Mobitex netw
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Here is where your error is: GAIT is a separate plan, with its own specific handsets. Our GSM customers cannot access the GAIT network.
Mobitex and XPress Mail are specifically for RIM devices. Not for our internet or any other features. Those are specialty products. Not used by our customers unless they have Blackberry devices.
When I say that everything works everywhere I mean on the GSM network. You don't need Mobitex access, or XPress mail access.
Voice, data, features all on the ONE GSM network. Make sense now?
Mobitex and XPress Mail are specifically for RIM devices. Not for our internet or any other features. Those are specialty products. Not used by our customers unless they have Blackberry devices.
When I say that everything works everywhere I mean on the GSM network. You don't need Mobitex access, or XPress mail access.
Voice, data, features all on the ONE GSM network. Make sense now?
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phonepimp3376 said:Hey Pimp, aren't you being a little farsighted? There are all kinds of problems that could arise from the merger as well as the WCDMA build out.
will WCDMA be expensive? sure. Will it cripple us? Not by a long shot. But everyone seems to think that WCDMA will require REPLACING equipment. This is not the case. It can be overlaid to the existing equipment, Will it happen overnight? Again, no. Trust me when I say Cingular knows EXACTLY what they will have to do, and will do it effeciently and well, and come away from it the premiere wireless carrier in America. It won't happen overnight, but it WILL happen.
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WCDMA(UMTS) is already being trialed in a few markets for both Cingular and ATTWS. Cingular says UMTS will be national by 2005. Of course, there will be problems upgrading to 3G for them, but they have the benefit of watching Asia and Europe make all the original mistakes when they implemented UMTS overseas. Cingular has been given respect world wide for the lack of problems it had upgrading to GSM. There were problems of course, but not as many as expected. I believe the merger and the upgrade to UMTS will happen almost simultaneously. Choosing which network is better in the market and /or merging the networks together in a market, then immediately doing the UMTS overlay. By christmas 2005 you could be buying a UMTS/GSM phone. The won't be ...
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CainMarko said:...
WCDMA(UMTS) is already being trialed in a few markets for both Cingular and ATTWS. Cingular says UMTS will be national by 2005. Of course, there will be problems upgrading to 3G for them, but they have the benefit of watching Asia and Europe make all the original mistakes when they implemented UMTS overseas. Cingular has been given respect world wide for the lack of problems it had upgrading to GSM. There were problems of course, but not as many as expected. I believe the merger and the upgrade to UMTS will happen almost simultaneously. Choosing which network is better in the market and /or merging the networks together in a market, then immediately doing the UMTS overlay. By christmas 2005 you could be bu
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NO pal, they offered to sell because Cingular kept offering to buy them. They almost agreed just to sell to Cingular, but the shareholders wanted to see if they could get a better offer thru an auction. They did. We paid MORE than what we originally offered. Cingular was set to expand it's network anyway and buying all of attws' resources and customers was only slightly more expensive to them than doing it all from scratch.
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Not so... because the future for Cingular is both the 850mhz band AND upgrading to EDGE then to UMTS. Tmobile USA currently has no plans for this. ATTWS has already gone that route.
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I believe Cingular probably has a good idea of what to do. I just don't think they know the dog they have by acquiring ATTWS. For the first time in the history of the industry a company had a net churn for a quarter. It has happened before for a month, but never for an entire quarter. Even with the strength of the AT&T brand name behind them they have had 2 and probably 3 quarters of consecutive churn. There is a reason for this. Yes the licenses are valuable, but you at Cingular are also inheriting ATTWS reputation when yours isn't stellar, not bad, but not stellar. When the Verizon merger occurred all of the components of the merger had a better reputation than both Cingular and ATTWS. Add to that the fact that nobody can make WCDMA work m...
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I think the Cingular execs a little more than us. You dont just spend a billion zillion gajillion dollars like your gonna a pack of gum(some amt of money uncomprehendable by me).
They did some major research and the benefits out weighed the costs to them, so they bought ATT.
I think Cingular made a good decision
They did some major research and the benefits out weighed the costs to them, so they bought ATT.
I think Cingular made a good decision
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They probably made a great decision, if not only for the licenses. They could not have bought those licenses at that price in an FCC spectrum auction. 41 billion is a steal for them. What they will be allowed to keep and what they will be forced to sell will affect many things.
I can tell you that it will be a few years before they iron things out. They are competition to reckon with, but have an uphill journey because of the deterioration of ATTWS.
VZW spent a couple of years ironing out their merger with more healthy networks. these things don't happen overnight or cheaply
I can tell you that it will be a few years before they iron things out. They are competition to reckon with, but have an uphill journey because of the deterioration of ATTWS.
VZW spent a couple of years ironing out their merger with more healthy networks. these things don't happen overnight or cheaply
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A quote from mountainwireless.com about Cingular in California:
"Cingular's GSM service on the west coast has deteriorated due to over capacity, worse in CA than in WA, OR & ID. They have good coverage, but suffer from an overloaded network. They have the honor of generating more complaints to the California Public Utilities Commission than any other utility, and the state is considering sanctions.Pros: They sometimes have good promotional plans and limited regional and national coverage. Cons: Aside from poor network services, their customer service generates complaints on the internet and closes at night and weekends, and their GSM service has very limited roaming, especially in rural areas."
The dreaded capacity issue rears its ug...
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"Cingular's GSM service on the west coast has deteriorated due to over capacity, worse in CA than in WA, OR & ID. They have good coverage, but suffer from an overloaded network. They have the honor of generating more complaints to the California Public Utilities Commission than any other utility, and the state is considering sanctions.Pros: They sometimes have good promotional plans and limited regional and national coverage. Cons: Aside from poor network services, their customer service generates complaints on the internet and closes at night and weekends, and their GSM service has very limited roaming, especially in rural areas."
The dreaded capacity issue rears its ug...
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I've never heard any such rubbish before. Coverage is similar in the west from ALL carriers. Matching CDMA's coverage would bankrupt Cingular??? Cocaine is a powerful drug, man. Lay off.
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CainMarko said:Hey Cain, with all due respect, we all think the world of Jeff. His insights have taught me more about the industry than anyone's posts on this forum. Just a modicum of respect, okay?
I've never heard any such rubbish before. Coverage is similar in the west from ALL carriers. Matching CDMA's coverage would bankrupt Cingular??? Cocaine is a powerful drug, man. Lay off.
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Exactly where is all of this GSM coverage in the West? Certainly not in Washington or Oregon. California has a bunch, but Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Nevada, Utah and of course Idaho have little. The strength of CDMA is that it can coexist with AMPS and hand down to AMPS when necessary. This opens up much more voice coverage.
Sorry dude, but the coverage maps don't show the picture. VZW, Sprint, Alltel and U.S. Cellular are picking up GSM carrier customers much more quickly than GSM carriers are picking up CDMA customers in WLNP. The reason is coverage.
Sorry dude, but the coverage maps don't show the picture. VZW, Sprint, Alltel and U.S. Cellular are picking up GSM carrier customers much more quickly than GSM carriers are picking up CDMA customers in WLNP. The reason is coverage.
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how about m2m that doesnt work out side citys or off cingulars or att system, you have to be on someones system that cingular has agreememts with,no agreements means no service for m2m,etc.also look at cingulars actual coverage map and it is only about 3/4 of verizons. like how a company makes it look like they have nationwide coverage and as soon as your out of the city you have nothing.cingular is like that in northeast ohio and western pa.out of the city equals very little service,even att is not that goood.as where verizon has coverage about everywhere i have been on deliverys.and most of that is digital.since my phone has no analog back up- lg6000.
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Go with Verizon Wireless for the following reasons (in no particular order):
1)VerizonWireless is continually marked as being #1 on wireless reception with the fewest dropped call rating at EVERY TEST. Also the largest carrier of all the national carriers.
2) VerizonWireless spends $4 billion dollars (about 5 times more than any other carrier) on its network by improving it (new cell towers, new locations, expanding coverage, etc.), which means you're pretty much covered no matter WHERE you go at anytime (also means your reception is better in your home area...drive around a bit with both phones and you'll begin to find Cingular's weakspots)
3) VerizonWireless is continually awarded for #1 for best customer service (recently T-Mobil...
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1)VerizonWireless is continually marked as being #1 on wireless reception with the fewest dropped call rating at EVERY TEST. Also the largest carrier of all the national carriers.
2) VerizonWireless spends $4 billion dollars (about 5 times more than any other carrier) on its network by improving it (new cell towers, new locations, expanding coverage, etc.), which means you're pretty much covered no matter WHERE you go at anytime (also means your reception is better in your home area...drive around a bit with both phones and you'll begin to find Cingular's weakspots)
3) VerizonWireless is continually awarded for #1 for best customer service (recently T-Mobil...
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As opposed to Cingular (at least this is how it is for me in California):
1) dropped calls all the time
2) HORRIBLE customer service
3) New merger with AT&T will only cause problems because AT&T's network is garbage (do research and you'll see they are the lowest rated).
4) Their network doesn't work in vast times of emergency (i.e. during 9/11 their service was COMPLETELY unavailable in most cases and they had to lease service from other carriers just to have it, whereas Verizon was the ONLY carrier in the area to have reception, and they even brought down cell stations so people can make calls all day for FREE and also let people use their phones on their regular service for free during this time of emergency.
i can go on and on a...
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1) dropped calls all the time
2) HORRIBLE customer service
3) New merger with AT&T will only cause problems because AT&T's network is garbage (do research and you'll see they are the lowest rated).
4) Their network doesn't work in vast times of emergency (i.e. during 9/11 their service was COMPLETELY unavailable in most cases and they had to lease service from other carriers just to have it, whereas Verizon was the ONLY carrier in the area to have reception, and they even brought down cell stations so people can make calls all day for FREE and also let people use their phones on their regular service for free during this time of emergency.
i can go on and on a...
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1. Show me a report other than Consumer Reports that states that definitively. I have already picked apart why Consumer Reports is suspect, and won't do it here again.
2. Cingular spent over 3 billion last year alone, last I checked that wasn't FIVE TIMES LESS than VZW.
3. Nextel has the lowest churn in the industry, keep trying. If VZW is so hot in NYC. why did Cingular kick their butt on 20/20?
Now, when VZW can show me NATIONWIDE coverage that doesn't have a roaming charge when off net, a network where all you features work and aren't limited to certain areas, N&W that doesn't take away from anytime minutes outside certain areas, M2m minutes that work that way too, and phones that don't fall apart more often than other carrier in...
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2. Cingular spent over 3 billion last year alone, last I checked that wasn't FIVE TIMES LESS than VZW.
3. Nextel has the lowest churn in the industry, keep trying. If VZW is so hot in NYC. why did Cingular kick their butt on 20/20?
Now, when VZW can show me NATIONWIDE coverage that doesn't have a roaming charge when off net, a network where all you features work and aren't limited to certain areas, N&W that doesn't take away from anytime minutes outside certain areas, M2m minutes that work that way too, and phones that don't fall apart more often than other carrier in...
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Well, let me see... T-Mobile best in CA in customer service. You stated that is true of VZW because the service is so good, didn't you? So it would follow that would be the case with T-Mobile too, right?
Rocket Scientist- T-Mobiles CA network is CINGULAR'S!
Rocket Scientist- T-Mobiles CA network is CINGULAR'S!
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t-mobile's customer service is great. But I don't think that customers care if a rep is telling them in a nice or mean way that their service wont' work in buildings no matter what they do.
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That is the one downfall of T-Mobile... 850 MHz penetrates construction better, and they are exclusively 1900 MHz
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phonepimp3376 said:I guess that's all relative to how close you are to a tower, 'cause at my work Tmobile penetrates just fine.
That is the one downfall of T-Mobile... 850 MHz penetrates construction better, and they are exclusively 1900 MHz
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will you guys do me a favor and stop saying penitrate...Jeez...with the dirty talk...hehehe
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Since there aren't as many T-mobile towers as other carriers, we can definitely see that this is a real problem for them.
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phonepimp3376 said:Hey, Pimp...could we agree on the fact the report for 20/20 might have been compromised by the same misinformation people derived from the Consumer Reports survey? I also agree with your explanation on how Verizon is so slow to market with their phones...vendor support sucks. I, personally, am not listening to the bull about "testing" any longer.
If VZW is so hot in NYC. why did Cingular kick their butt on 20/20?
Also, stop hiding behind the 'extensive testing' and 'we're more selective' BS stories to hide the fact from the American public that there is FAR LESS VENDOR SUPPORT for your technology, and THAT is the biggest reason your phone selection sucks wind!
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yeah down with tests...everybody must now decide for themselves what they want...that will never happen...people are to lazy to have the motivation to learn about the info themselves...they would rather listen to what other people say from tests...than to try and figure out themselves...therefore testing will always be in play...no matter how bias or how subjective the testing parameters might be...gotta love the world we live in...oh by the Consumer Reports came out with a test that says that if you jump off a bridge, you will live a longer life... form the line to the left lol
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Darn, all the parking spots are taken for my bridge... oh, well, I'll just have to take my chances they're wrong 😈
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It's possible, muchdrama...but if they can beat questionable data, why can't I?
The thing that does lend credence to the 20/20 special is that the phones used were all by a company known for RF dependability, phones that the company stands behind as the best entry level phones by that company, and that the conditions of the test were the same for all carriers.
Limiting it to one geographic area was a mistake in my opinion, but if you have to choose only one, NYC is a pretty good one. Pretty much all companies tested have decent coverage there, and the demands of the geography are pretty rough too.
The thing that does lend credence to the 20/20 special is that the phones used were all by a company known for RF dependability, phones that the company stands behind as the best entry level phones by that company, and that the conditions of the test were the same for all carriers.
Limiting it to one geographic area was a mistake in my opinion, but if you have to choose only one, NYC is a pretty good one. Pretty much all companies tested have decent coverage there, and the demands of the geography are pretty rough too.
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Well, I must say that I here first hand from customers having worked for a gsm carrier and now working in porting for a cdma carrier that coverage in New york is great for you...if you have verizon wireless.
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phonepimp3376 said:We will NEVER hear the end of this.
Well, they were #2, so it probably is
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Overall, across all markets and in many statisical and financial categories, VZW is the industry leader. I knew that even when i worked for a gsm carrier.
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TheVZWMan said:This is payback for every time you, I and every other rabid Verizon lover brought the Consumer Reports survey up. Something I've recently disavowed.
lol...yeah phone pimp...keep rubbin it in why don't you...jeez
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: begin sarcasm : How many times did you guys hold Cingular's nose and dump Consumer Reports and JD Power down our throats? : end sarcasm :
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phonepimp3376 said:Well, if that's the case...congrats, Cingular.
It's possible, muchdrama...but if they can beat questionable data, why can't I?
The thing that does lend credence to the 20/20 special is that the phones used were all by a company known for RF dependability, phones that the company stands behind as the best entry level phones by that company, and that the conditions of the test were the same for all carriers.
Limiting it to one geographic area was a mistake in my opinion, but if you have to choose only one, NYC is a pretty good one. Pretty much all companies tested have decent coverage there, and the demands of the geography are pretty rough too.
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I'm not sure that VZW is too concerned about their arsenal of phones, they are focused on raising arpu, which would mean marketing to business users. I'm sure these users don't care about cameras and such. VZW does need to get on teh ball with bluetooth.
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Then that is VZW's shortsightedness. How many times do we see posts asking when the new phones are coming out? Will they have this feature or that one? Trust me, they DO care. VZW cares too, but they can't do anything about it right now, because the phones aren't developed as fast or in the amounts and styles that GSM phones are. GSM has over 1 billion users worldwide, as opposed to CDMA's 101 million. If you are a vendor/manufacturer, where do you spend YOUR R7D budget?
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VZW chooses not to make those changes. Right now the profitability of the company doesn't warrant any drastic changes. They are adding as many customers as all the other carriers combined, except for T-mobile.I think the younger demographic cares about phones with this feature or the other, and that demographic isn't paying as much money for service as the older one. As long as they are making money, there won't be drastic changes. But, I must digress, I have service with another cdma carrier which has alot better phone selection. If I could combine their phone's with vzw's customer service and network reliability, I would be in heaven.
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lilgabe1 said:Hmmm, methinks thou art a subscriber to Sprint. Yeah, for s...
VZW chooses not to make those changes. Right now the profitability of the company doesn't warrant any drastic changes. They are adding as many customers as all the other carriers combined, except for T-mobile.I think the younger demographic cares about phones with this feature or the other, and that demographic isn't paying as much money for service as the older one. As long as they are making money, there won't be drastic changes. But, I must digress, I have service with another cdma carrier which has alot better phone selection. If I could combine their phone's with vzw's customer service and network reliability, I would be in heaven.
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I indeed subscribe to Sprint, and I hate them adn love them. I used to be able to talk them into crediting me for phones. I have a nice retention plan. But it takes three years to get through to a customer service rep, and I would drop calls if I was sitting on top of a sprint tower. Nextel indeed could become a power. I think they need to get some of the younger demographic. I think the other carriers are going to dig into their business users with a SUCCESSFUL launch of a good push to talk solution.
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lilgabe1 said:I never had any real problems with Sprint CS in my 2 years with the carrier. As for Nextel, you'd be surprised but they've managed to snare a pretty good portion of the youth market. I've got a you...
I indeed subscribe to Sprint, and I hate them adn love them. I used to be able to talk them into crediting me for phones. I have a nice retention plan. But it takes three years to get through to a customer service rep, and I would drop calls if I was sitting on top of a sprint tower. Nextel indeed could become a power. I think they need to get some of the younger demographic. I think the other carriers are going to dig into their business users with a SUCCESSFUL launch of a good push to talk solution.
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Nextel made an outstanding business move picking up that technology. I have to give them props. I don't see anybody around my town with nextel other than comcast repair men and construction. And just for the record, I hate the cable/satellite industry just a little bit more than the wireless industry. They are gouging people. But that's a whole nother story. Competition like we have in this industry would do that industry a world of good. VZW claims that the new ptt will be better, we will see how that works. Sprint will attract users because all of their ptt handsets aren't manufactured by motorola. If young people like ptt as you say, I would think it would be more likely that they would snatch up sprint, where they probably would pay less...
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lilgabe1 said:...
Nextel made an outstanding business move picking up that technology. I have to give them props. I don't see anybody around my town with nextel other than comcast repair men and construction. And just for the record, I hate the cable/satellite industry just a little bit more than the wireless industry. They are gouging people. But that's a whole nother story. Competition like we have in this industry would do that industry a world of good. VZW claims that the new ptt will be better, we will see how that works. Sprint will attract users because all of their ptt handsets aren't manufactured by motorola. If young people like ptt as you say, I would think it would be more likely that they would snatch up sprint,
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Where are the facts in your reply? Show me numbers, not Biblical analogies. For instance, how much of Nextel's subscriber base is 25 or younger? How many of the growing number of Readylink users are 25 and younger? Don't argue with me about facts and not present any yourself. That's real talk.
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Sprint's PTT is doing very well. It is easy to sell and works great. It helps that we get to sell it with Sanyo phones. If only Verizon had Sanyo phones then there wouldn't be all of the threads on this forum about crummy phones.
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I concur. But what about Samsung? I tend to be loyal to that brand. They are releasing a push to talk handset soon.
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Verizon isn't scared of Cingular, they are laughing that they bought ATT. It will cost alot of money just to clean up that mess. I guarantee you that ATT lost another half a million customers this quarter.
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Oh really? Take a look at how much spectrum ALONE we picked up in the deal. Then you start, if you have ANY clue what that means, to see what you're up against, pal.
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Yes, I do have a clue. They need the cash flow to erect cell sites and make adjustments to existing ones to make sure that they are utilizing that spectrum to it's fullest potential. Cash that won't come easy after investing in the merger itself.
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True, but we knew that coming in. So where's the issue? Cingular, SBC and BellSouth did their homework prior to the buyout. Not to mention we LOVE a challenge. I think you guys are seriously underestimating Cingular. This will be the first time in ages that VZW has faced any serious competition. Let the games begin. We welcome the opposition, and face all comers.
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VZW faces heavy competition in every market. From the likes of Cingular, ATTWS, Sprint, T-Mo, USCC and anyone else out there. Yet VZW has the lion's share of the market in most markets they are in. They don't use gimmicks they are just straight up with people. It helps that they have their own distribution channel and also 5500 retail dealers from one retailer alone.
From their performance they are in a position to define the battle.
From their performance they are in a position to define the battle.
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Heavy competition? Its been YEARS since VZW had heavy competition! No one until now could compete with their coverage, so how did they face competition? They were higher, but they worked where others didn't, so you accepted the higher price and crap phones, because you had the best chance of that crap phone completing a call. Cingular is about to change that, and when the American public see they have a reliable choice, THAT'S when VZW's battle will begin.
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And these battles will be good for the consumer, as prices will come down and quality will go up. I hope that Cingular does compete well with Verizon. But we know that VZW is a well oiled machine, so we'll see.
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It seems that you suffer from the myopia that ATTWS reps did.
North Dakota coverage is not important if I live in Florida and never intend to go there.
The reality is that in many markets competitors match Verizon's coverage. Customers are way more concerned with how their phone will work on Main St than out of state. When I worked for USCC we had no problem fighting ATTWS national footprint, it was the local stuff we competed with. We can beat T-Mobile because they only have 10 towers in our MSA and Verizon has many more. Nationwide coverage is of secondary importance to local coverage, where people go every day, week or month.
North Dakota coverage is not important if I live in Florida and never intend to go there.
The reality is that in many markets competitors match Verizon's coverage. Customers are way more concerned with how their phone will work on Main St than out of state. When I worked for USCC we had no problem fighting ATTWS national footprint, it was the local stuff we competed with. We can beat T-Mobile because they only have 10 towers in our MSA and Verizon has many more. Nationwide coverage is of secondary importance to local coverage, where people go every day, week or month.
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SPCSVZWJeff said:
It seems that you suffer from the myopia that ATTWS reps did.
North Dakota coverage is not important if I live in Florida and never intend to go there.
The reality is that in many markets competitors match Verizon's coverage. Customers are way more concerned with how their phone will work on Main St than out of state. When I worked for USCC we had no problem fighting ATTWS national footprint, it was the local stuff we competed with. We can beat T-Mobile because they only have 10 towers in our MSA and Verizon has many more. Nationwide coverage is of secondary importance to local coverage, where people go every day, week or month.
you're absolutly correct..which leads us back to choosing a ...
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Amen to that,
It is very frustrating clearing up customer confusion on this. In our market we are infested with Cricket and they actually have more customers than T-Mobile or Sprint. People would love to travel further than Cottage Grove,Eugene, Springfield, Veneta and Coburg (an area much smaller than the city limits of most major cities), but rarely do so.
For these folks Cricket makes more sense than VZW or anyone else because of the unlimited minutes.
It is very frustrating clearing up customer confusion on this. In our market we are infested with Cricket and they actually have more customers than T-Mobile or Sprint. People would love to travel further than Cottage Grove,Eugene, Springfield, Veneta and Coburg (an area much smaller than the city limits of most major cities), but rarely do so.
For these folks Cricket makes more sense than VZW or anyone else because of the unlimited minutes.
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The question is not what you got but how much will you be allowed to keep. Historically the FCC is not anywhere as generous as you are asking them to be.
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True, but there has never been a precedent for a deal of this size. Nor has there been plans for a network rejuvenization of this size and acope. We know we will have to sell off some spectrum already, that's no surprise, and we will do so, which will net some funds for us. Better to sell some off than have it around unused. But we will get what we need, and most likely a bit more.
My thinking is this: Cingular is playing the old game where you come in much higher than what you expect to get, in hopes the offer is still higher than what you thought you'd get.
Like putting a 5,000 dollar price on something you really hope to get 2,500 for...if you get 3,500 you win. But you wouldn't have gotten that extra grand if you put 2,500 on the...
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My thinking is this: Cingular is playing the old game where you come in much higher than what you expect to get, in hopes the offer is still higher than what you thought you'd get.
Like putting a 5,000 dollar price on something you really hope to get 2,500 for...if you get 3,500 you win. But you wouldn't have gotten that extra grand if you put 2,500 on the...
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lilgabe1 said:Boy, I'm sure glad you're not CEO of Verizon. That'd be disastrous.
Verizon isn't scared of Cingular, they are laughing that they bought ATT. It will cost alot of money just to clean up that mess. I guarantee you that ATT lost another half a million customers this quarter.
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Funny you should say that, because VZW management has said those same things.
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Global System for Mobile Communications is the basis for Nextel's Integrated Digital Enhance Network
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone.htm/ ... »
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone.htm/ ... »
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Majority of Sprint's 'cutting edge' phones are Sanyos. Sprint has the corner market on them as well, so they develop phones pretty much for just SPrint in the US.
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I would describe Samsung as cutting edge also. I've always been a huge Samsung fan. Which is why I did backflips when the a670 dropped for VZW
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This is exactly the reason I have a problem with VZW. People don't need it so we'll keep taking their money. We charge more than almost anybody for basic service and dated phones, and people still come in droves.
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You can hate them, but that's the nature of business. To make money. Just like I hate the fact that Cingular advertises rollover that actually stops rolling.
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You obviously don't understand rollover, then. Rollover minutes expire 12 months after they are earned. Since you have the opportunity to generate rollover every month, they don't stop rolling.
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I was under the understanding that they expired after a year period, I will have to read some literature on that.
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lilgabe1 said:Yay! Let's all refer to facts AFTER we've made asses of ourselves!
I was under the understanding that they expired after a year period, I will have to read some literature on that.
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I said I had read teh facts, obviously I missed something. Again, you didn't present any cut and paste facts on here about rollover. We are going off of your word.
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phonepimp3376 said:You'll have to forgive Gabe, Pimp. He has a little problem when it comes to facts.
You obviously don't understand rollover, then. Rollover minutes expire 12 months after they are earned. Since you have the opportunity to generate rollover every month, they don't stop rolling.
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to gabes defense...I was lead to believe the same thing about rololover minutes if you remember about a week ago when PP set me straight on that...
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phonepimp did say that the rollover expires in 12 months.
wouldnt that technically mean they stop? or am i just crazy.
lilgabe says "i thought rollover stops in one year"
then pimp replies "they expire in 12 months"
isnt the same thing, i dont see a pimp slap
wouldnt that technically mean they stop? or am i just crazy.
lilgabe says "i thought rollover stops in one year"
then pimp replies "they expire in 12 months"
isnt the same thing, i dont see a pimp slap
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The month expires, not the total. But as you potentially gain rollover every month, you always have a reserve.
One year after you accrue them, that month goes bye bye, but is replaced by the ones you just gained.
One year after you accrue them, that month goes bye bye, but is replaced by the ones you just gained.
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The way it was explained to me was that they all dropped off after a year, regardless of when they were earned. I must confessed that this was expressed to me by someone who would be biased against Cingular. I deserve to be thrashed.
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Then that makes the both of us. Because right now, the facts show that VZW is still the number one carrier and they dont' need to change anything as of right now (regardless of what Cingular is building or buying) to remain number one. I knew VZW was better when I worked for a GSM carrier.
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Back then, that was most likely true, but the wireless world is not a vacuum, and changes rapidly. Cingular has added more than 700 towers than they had just a short time ago. Around 500 last year, plans for over 400 this year, not to mention the acquisition of ATTWS coming into play soon. We have been 100% GSM for less than two months, and things are already showing the change. But we WANT VZW to underestimate us, so SHHHHHHH.
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I beg to differ, I believe once the merger is completed Cingular is going to be a force to recon(sp?) with, and if we don't something now to keep ourselves ahead we're going to see a fall in this wonderful customer growth we got goin on right now...
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Fir the ne2 discussion posted earlier, I stated the NE2 expires in 6 months. Is this the case in the midwest?
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"Reckoned". I never have said that Verizon doesn't need to improve. Right now, they dont' believe that they do. I would like to see a better phone selection and more minutes on those expensive plans. Which, by the way has happened on the high end plans. Verizon is banking on that in-network, which was hugely successful. I still think customers should have the option to pay more for nights at 7 or 8. Having said all that, I'm not impressed with all of cingular phones...are they getting that text messaging motorola phoen though? can't remember the model number right now. VZW is committed to not only being the leader in teh wireless industry, but to be a great company along the lines of FED ex and DEll with service and such.
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If you're talking about the A630, Moto estimates by fall, so count on it by Christmas.. lol. Both ATTWS and Cingular are slated for it.
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I text more than is humanly possible, I must say I would like to get my hands on that phone.
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this place has a good cdma phone selection
http://www.wirelessimports.com »
the phones are really expensive and i'm not sure why VZW won't sell these phones themselves; that is IF they do work
http://www.wirelessimports.com »
the phones are really expensive and i'm not sure why VZW won't sell these phones themselves; that is IF they do work
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schnozejt said:
this place has a good cdma phone selection
http://www.wirelessimports.com »
the phones are really expensive and i'm not sure why VZW won't sell these phones themselves; that is IF they do work
If you put 'website' in the slot for a code, you get a minor discount. I remember that from when the site owner announced that site.
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Is it just me or has VZW dropped out of contracts with Motorola except for PTT...I wouldn't be totally hurt by this if it were the case because the past Motorola phone that we've had have been junk
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yeah we do too...that and the v60p....seems the v60 series are the only ones thats worked worth a damn...t720 and 30...crap...v120c and e, don't get me started with those...just not good quality phones...if I had to generlize what type of phones I take the most ammnt of tech calls on it would be those listed above
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Moto isn't very reliable with any carrier, except for nextel I guess. I don't think we are offering anything except for variations of the v60. Sprint even gets the best motorolas...that v60v looks interesting.
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Pimp, Maybe you should ask yourself: "Why is Verizon growing so fast when their rates are higher than most?" I don't think the American public is stupid like some do. VZW has focused on the right things at the right time. Maybe a stroke of dumb luck, but I don't think so.
Numbers don't lie.
Verizon's churn is below 1.5%, They are adding 1.5-1.75 million customers per quarter, Their ARPU is about in the middle of the pack but very acceptable and they have big bucks to invest in their network and in marketing.
T-Mobile's upturn will end after the last customer who will port from ATTWS does so. They are picking up the people who are sold on GSM. VZW will continue to grow at a similar rate if they don't get in their own way.
Numbers don't lie.
Verizon's churn is below 1.5%, They are adding 1.5-1.75 million customers per quarter, Their ARPU is about in the middle of the pack but very acceptable and they have big bucks to invest in their network and in marketing.
T-Mobile's upturn will end after the last customer who will port from ATTWS does so. They are picking up the people who are sold on GSM. VZW will continue to grow at a similar rate if they don't get in their own way.
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And you don't think Cingular has similarly deep pockets? Bear in mind we only became Cingular in 1991. Not bad for 3 years. Our gross adds have been growing as well. Churn is much lower, and ARPU is climbing. All of this happening in the middle of a recently completed GSM overlay nationwide, which was accomplished without much fuss and much faster than anyone thought it could be done.
VZW is already getting in their own way, and anyone who reads forums like this should be able to see this. People want things that VZW refuses to give them. Early evenings, better and more phones, better pricing... the time is almost here when 'we work almost everywhere' won't cut it anymore. VZW won't be able to ignore those people anymore.
VZW is already getting in their own way, and anyone who reads forums like this should be able to see this. People want things that VZW refuses to give them. Early evenings, better and more phones, better pricing... the time is almost here when 'we work almost everywhere' won't cut it anymore. VZW won't be able to ignore those people anymore.
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There was a huge fuss when those companies moved to GSM, customers that were getting service didn't anymore. So they decided to port...and the rest is history.
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Actually, that is why Cingular brought out GAIT, as a bridge between the two.
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I agree 100% with you on this. T-Mobile is growing due to it being a new carrier and offering what are supposed to be cheaper rate plans. I did customer service for them and the customers aren't happy with the network. T-mobile will nosedive eventually.
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Yes on 20/20, Cingular did win. But what about the guy who had Cingular and kept getting cut-off when talking to his girlfriend, and at the end of the program when the commentator asked him what he'd like to say if someone from Cingular was sitting right in front of him, the guy said "Cingular, give me my "~*@*~" money back"! Now I'm not saying this is true of all Cingular customer's, for I don't remember where they said this gentleman lived...also it could have been something to do with the mans handset as well, but it goes to show as you and many others have stated that not all testing is accurate, and all carrier's have the pluses and minuses.
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100% Correct! Give this man the PRIZE. He gets it! Even tho Cingular won... that was just a reminder(as all companies NEED TO BE REMINDED)that we are not perfect and we can always do better. Only the automobile industry has more complaints than OUR industry! We will only truly have the right to brag when our customer base never calls us... except to order new things.
I also believe that people are just TOO reliant upon the cell phone. They expect perfection out of the damn things, but they are just MINI RADIOS!! IT's JUST A RADIO SIGNAL. IT'S NOT MANA FROM HEAVEN OR COSMIC ENERGY!!! it's a radio signal.
I also believe that people are just TOO reliant upon the cell phone. They expect perfection out of the damn things, but they are just MINI RADIOS!! IT's JUST A RADIO SIGNAL. IT'S NOT MANA FROM HEAVEN OR COSMIC ENERGY!!! it's a radio signal.
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It's what I've always said when people get "so exited" over these phone debates...it's only a phone, it's only a phone!! I sometimes get the impression that the phones or the carrier's are part of their family tree or something! People take it so personal!! 😢 🤣 🙄 😁 🙂
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CainMarko said:
100% Correct! Give this man the PRIZE. He gets it! Even tho Cingular won... that was just a reminder(as all companies NEED TO BE REMINDED)that we are not perfect and we can always do better. Only the automobile industry has more complaints than OUR industry! We will only truly have the right to brag when our customer base never calls us... except to order new things.
I also believe that people are just TOO reliant upon the cell phone. They expect perfection out of the damn things, but they are just MINI RADIOS!! IT's JUST A RADIO SIGNAL. IT'S NOT MANA FROM HEAVEN OR COSMIC ENERGY!!! it's a radio signal.
So when you wake up in the morning everyday, I bet you look in the mirror and say o...
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I don't want to bring up bad memories or anything, but isn't 20/20 the show that revealed to the world our diabolical plot to kill off the population by giving them cancer?
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And to save yourself from a chemical attack with Duct tape...the only way that you can save yourself from a chemical attack with duct tape is if you wrap yourself up and sufficate before the chemicals kill you
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Mana from heaven???? Hahahaha!!!!!!! LOL. I agree that people expect their cell phone to work like a landline but then don't want a cell tower near there property to help with signal.
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You also have to wonder who his girlfriend has for service, and if the problem is on her end. Not making excuses, just looking at it from all angles. Good points, however.
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Good points on your part too Phonepimp...I did think, and maybe that gentleman didn't realize it could be her signal or issue as well.
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VZWCustServ said:
Hypothetically: I am a customer that lives in such an area that Cingular and VZW have EQUAL signal strength in all the areas that I go to.
Lets also asume that I do not desperatly require traveling internationally but want to know the benefits of each carrier's international options.
Lets also say I have researched phones and have found at least 1 phone that I like with each carrier. For sake of argument I like the LG VX6000 and the LG L1200 but I am open to other phones with similar features.
What would you tell me in order to sway me to your carrier?
Are you still undecided about the company you work for? You should know the advantages of each carrier with the job you...
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85percent said:
Are you still undecided about the company you work for? You should know the advantages of each carrier with the job you have.
When a customer calls up at work and says the same thing you wrote, are you completely lost or what? Or do you tell them your typical response on these forums- "well every carrier is pretty good, I mean maybe you should try Cingular" ...Maybe our Q.A. ignores your calls?
🙄
-Verizon Wireless Sales
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85percent, I wrote the question in order to start a knowlegable debate where each person could show the benefits of a certain service. I own a VZW cell phone. I work for VZW. I tell my friends to get VZW. I, however, do not worship VZW. I als...
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: hands 85 percent a dictionary so he can look up the word 'hypothetical' :
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VZWCustServ said:...85percent said:
Are you still undecided about the company you work for? You should know the advantages of each carrier with the job you have.
When a customer calls up at work and says the same thing you wrote, are you completely lost or what? Or do you tell them your typical response on these forums- "well every carrier is pretty good, I mean maybe you should try Cingular" ...Maybe our Q.A. ignores your calls?
🙄
-Verizon Wireless Sales
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85percent, I wrote the question in order to start a knowlegable debate where each person could show the benefits of a certain service. I own a VZW cell phone. I work for VZW. I tell my friends to get VZW.
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but after working with Cingular, Sprint PCS, and now Verizon Wireless, I can give an educated perspective of wireless as a whole, instead of taking a wild guess of what competitors offer, like a few people in these forums seem to be good atWell, I hate to tell you, but just about anything you've ever posted is so far away from an educated perspective of wireless it's pretty laughable.
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muchdrama said:but after working with Cingular, Sprint PCS, and now Verizon Wireless, I can give an educated perspective of wireless as a whole, instead of taking a wild guess of what competitors offer, like a few people in these forums seem to be good atWell, I hate to tell you, but just about anything you've ever posted is so far away from an educated perspective of wireless it's pretty laughable.
Thats strange. I don't know anything yet the largest wireless carriers dont seem to have a problem hiring me. 😕
Find something I've said that was wrong, and quote it. I'd like to see.
😕
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I'm impressed! 😁 A very well versed, well thought-out professional response, with good points! I have learned a lot not only from you VZWCustServ, but Muchdrama, Phonepimp and CainMarko as well. You all have different viewpoints, but we can all take what we need and pertains to us and our situations, and discard the rest if need be. Not everyone in life is going to agree on carrier's, that would be impossible due to where you live (signal and all), and what experiences you've had with the people who work for those companies.
It only takes "one" individual to mess things up and turn a customer away, who will then tell his friends, family and so on. But then again, there can be the "one" individual or employee, who despite the fact peo...
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It only takes "one" individual to mess things up and turn a customer away, who will then tell his friends, family and so on. But then again, there can be the "one" individual or employee, who despite the fact peo...
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