Cingular miscounting your minutes?
I just signed up with Cingular and I'm looking for other Cingular users to see if you can verify the following problem:
According to my phone, a call lasts, say, 35 seconds. This should be billed as a minute. However, online I'm showing 2 minutes. Another call is, say, 11 minutes and 40 seconds. This should be billed as 12 minutes, but instead is billed as 13. It kind of looks like calls where the seconds portion goes over 30 get not only rounded up, but an additional minute tacked on. Since I only have the 10 most recent calls listed on my phone, and new calls to the same number overwrite the old, I've only been able to verify this with a few calls so far.
I'm thinking this could be due to programmer error in Cingular's billing....
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According to my phone, a call lasts, say, 35 seconds. This should be billed as a minute. However, online I'm showing 2 minutes. Another call is, say, 11 minutes and 40 seconds. This should be billed as 12 minutes, but instead is billed as 13. It kind of looks like calls where the seconds portion goes over 30 get not only rounded up, but an additional minute tacked on. Since I only have the 10 most recent calls listed on my phone, and new calls to the same number overwrite the old, I've only been able to verify this with a few calls so far.
I'm thinking this could be due to programmer error in Cingular's billing....
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We have ALWAYS advised that to never go buy your call timers on the phones, they show in seconds, as they record in seconds we bill in full minutes.a call thats 11minutes and 40 seconds, could very well be 13 minutes, for 2 reasons, the timers doesn't start ticking till it starts ringing, but as soon as you hit the tower, there is few seconds dead air pause before ringing is when the actual clock on our end starts ticking, also you can hit the end button on your phone, and the clock stops ,but if you are still hooked onto the tower our clock is still running, till you are not connected to the tower, those can be anywhere from 5-15 seconds on each end of the call, that bumps into the 11:40, into the 12:10, 12: range, and with rounding up, tha...
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sharpie said:
That is pretty interesting I never knew that 😳
Yep, its true, thats why they all say to refer to website as the call timers are not accurate in any way, and even says on the website for checking minutes, that this is an approximation so it is not a 100% accurate depiction of minutes, our lawyers are the best!!!!!
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Course, that doesn't happen all the time though... it used to be more though, but can still happen.
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It depends on your phone model as to when the counting starts; some phones start as soon as you hit TALK; others don't count until it connects to the other end.
I just found out my old phone did the former and my new one does the latter. There're several seconds' difference, but not 20 or 25.
That's pretty bad if you can hit END and still have 15 seconds added on to your call, bumping you into the next full minute. I'd say that's a counting pr...
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I just found out my old phone did the former and my new one does the latter. There're several seconds' difference, but not 20 or 25.
BlueGuy said:
also you can hit the end button on your phone, and the clock stops ,but if you are still hooked onto the tower our clock is still running, till you are not connected to the tower, those can be anywhere from 5-15 seconds on each end of the call
That's pretty bad if you can hit END and still have 15 seconds added on to your call, bumping you into the next full minute. I'd say that's a counting pr...
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What blueguy says is true... but i this is in no way done on purpose by cingular or any other company for that matter.
We have no way of knowing exacly when you hit the end call button. we only know when you disconnect when the phone disconnets from the tower... it is a pretty extreme case for it to take 15 seconds or more for it to disconnect, but im not saying its impossible.
This is an unavoidable problem of working with cellur technology.
We have no way of knowing exacly when you hit the end call button. we only know when you disconnect when the phone disconnets from the tower... it is a pretty extreme case for it to take 15 seconds or more for it to disconnect, but im not saying its impossible.
This is an unavoidable problem of working with cellur technology.
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That's very interesting. I knew about starting the call, but didn't know about ending it. What determines when your phone disconnects from the tower? The phone? So does it vary by model?
Could a phone be programmed to take extra time to disconnect?
I'm seeing discrepancies of 20+ seconds combined for starting and ending.
Could a phone be programmed to take extra time to disconnect?
I'm seeing discrepancies of 20+ seconds combined for starting and ending.
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What determines when your call is disconeected is when your cal has left the switch, when you call someone,as soon as the phone connects to the tower you areon OUR clock with the company, when the connection is broken with the tower, thats when the billing stops, now since we bill in full minutes, its rounded up.
A phone can't be programmed to take extra time to disconnect,when the connection is broken between your phone and tower thats when its done.
You may see discrepencies, but they are still legit as thats outlined in the terms of service.
A phone can't be programmed to take extra time to disconnect,when the connection is broken between your phone and tower thats when its done.
You may see discrepencies, but they are still legit as thats outlined in the terms of service.
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BlueGuy said:
What determines when your call is disconeected is when your cal has left the switch
What determines when your call has "left the switch"? What takes the extra 15 seconds, the phone or the tower or what?
BlueGuy said:
when you call someone,as soon as the phone connects to the tower you areon OUR clock with the company, when the connection is broken with the tower, thats when the billing stops, now since we bill in full minutes, its rounded up.
Yes, so you said...
BlueGuy said:...
A phone can't be programmed to take extra time to disconnect,when the connection is broken between your phone and tower thats when its done.
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What determines when your call has "left the switch"? What takes the extra 15 seconds, the phone or the tower or what?
The tower, after the phone sends a signal to the tower thats its breaking the connection now, then its processed then broken.
Yes, so you said...
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I know, its still true.
So what breaks the connection? The tower? Because if it's the phone, then of course the software could be written to take extra time before terminating the connection. And if it's the tower, that's a black box.
See answer up above ---->
It mentions you are billed from the time the call is in your system until it's out, but the extra time to disconnect part is somethi ...
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BlueGuy said:
Yes but to bill on a per second basis would cost more money then plans would have to be raised appropriately, and its stillthe same problem, instead of i minute, it'll be i never used 45 seconds I only used 32 seconds, you can't please everyone, the nature of the business, you please as many as you can without offending them all.
Ha, I *knew* you would bring that up. Sooner or later some provider is going to do it though, and will issue phones that also match up.
As for pleasing as many as you can -- everyone I know who has wireless service feels they get screwed one way or another, so I'd say the industry on the whole isn't doing such a good job.
Dropped calls, spotty coverage, cluele...
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singe said:...BlueGuy said:
Yes but to bill on a per second basis would cost more money then plans would have to be raised appropriately, and its stillthe same problem, instead of i minute, it'll be i never used 45 seconds I only used 32 seconds, you can't please everyone, the nature of the business, you please as many as you can without offending them all.
Ha, I *knew* you would bring that up. Sooner or later some provider is going to do it though, and will issue phones that also match up.
As for pleasing as many as you can -- everyone I know who has wireless service feels they get screwed one way or another, so I'd say the industry on the whole isn't doing such a good job.
Droppe
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singe said:
As for pleasing as many as you can -- everyone I know who has wireless service feels they get screwed one way or another, so I'd say the industry on the whole isn't doing such a good job.
Dropped calls, spotty coverage, clueless reps (rude ones are everywhere but how about ones that actually know something?), billing mistakes of all sorts... the list goes on.
I can only say that the general public as a whole needs to realize that cell phone are in all acuatllity a cross between a sophisticated walkie talkie and an fm radio... if people knew how delicate and complicated the wireless industry was, they wouldn't complain.
I can say that I EXPECT a dropped call. ...
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Could you live WITHOUT your wireless phone?? I couldn't, and on the whole, I think they do an excellent job..I have been through bad weather, just the past weekend was the latest episode, and home phone was knocked out along with electricity..but yanno what? My cellphone worked like a champ..go wireless industry, and especially CINGULAR!! GO VERIZON (to hell LOL)!!
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They do a decent job, the service works most of the time and it is very useful. However, that doesn't mean there's no improvement they could make. I'm sure most people have some complaint or another, but not everyone goes our and makes a lot of noise with their loud mouth :-P
Also, I think if you NEVER dealth with customer service, you're probably a lot happier :-P So the people who just got a plan and never need to change anything are lucky 🙂 But if you ever have to call cingular support, a number of things will piss you off..the wait time to start, rude reps, having to be transferred to a different area because you used the wrong menu (and subsequently waiting in line again), clueless reps (or ones that take forever to look up basi...
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Also, I think if you NEVER dealth with customer service, you're probably a lot happier :-P So the people who just got a plan and never need to change anything are lucky 🙂 But if you ever have to call cingular support, a number of things will piss you off..the wait time to start, rude reps, having to be transferred to a different area because you used the wrong menu (and subsequently waiting in line again), clueless reps (or ones that take forever to look up basi...
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That's why once you find a good store you stick with it. I give contradictory information to customers all the time in my store, but that's because it's the right information. The most common ones are in regards to the exchange policy, paying bills, and exception upgrades, none of which can be done in my store. The only one that really bothers me is the exchange policy... everything everywhere states "All devices and accessories must be returned to the original place of purchase," and that applies to phones ordered online or over the phone as well.
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oooooo I must have a loud mouth 😁
Yes I call customer service quite a bit..sometimes good, sometimes bad..its like anything else..deal with it..Ciao
Yes I call customer service quite a bit..sometimes good, sometimes bad..its like anything else..deal with it..Ciao
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Ok well, lets clear somethings here, it doesn't matter what the phones say, ther calls and times are recorded why when you connect to the tower and when you disconeect off the tower, what your phones says, being polite as i can- doesn't mean jack.
The fcc dictates what companies can and can't do, they approved that policy forcarriers to bill in full minutes, and when to start charging and when to stop charging.
Let me give you an example, you call someone, you punch in the number, then you got like 2-10 seconds till the phone starts ringing, when you connexted to that tower you are using service so you pay, no you end the call by pushing end on the phone, till you disconnect from the tower you are still on the clock.
FYI, the gove...
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The fcc dictates what companies can and can't do, they approved that policy forcarriers to bill in full minutes, and when to start charging and when to stop charging.
Let me give you an example, you call someone, you punch in the number, then you got like 2-10 seconds till the phone starts ringing, when you connexted to that tower you are using service so you pay, no you end the call by pushing end on the phone, till you disconnect from the tower you are still on the clock.
FYI, the gove...
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Thanks for all the info. You know a lot more about this than customer service! It explains it at least, even if it still sucks.
Yeah, but that's no reason to just "roll over" (ha ha), people making a fuss is why we finally have cell number portability. More competition helps too. I imagine that if this is a technical issue, then somewhere down the line, a carrier could well be advertising "we now accurately count your minutes!" along with ads about how other companies rip you off.
Cable has h...
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BlueGuy said:
FYI, the government doesn't really care either, they have said themselves that wireless phones are "LUXURIES" so they don't give much love on the matter, and hey you can always use a pay phone.
Yeah, but that's no reason to just "roll over" (ha ha), people making a fuss is why we finally have cell number portability. More competition helps too. I imagine that if this is a technical issue, then somewhere down the line, a carrier could well be advertising "we now accurately count your minutes!" along with ads about how other companies rip you off.
Cable has h...
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sorry, but the reason that "Local Number portability" was done had nothing to do with making a fuss, what did that was that more and services are created, numbers run out since you only have 9999 combinations,thats why along with making different area codes, this helps with the issue.
BTW that only works if you plan on taking your number to another local carrier, so if you live in New york with a new york number and move to Detroit, you don't get to port your number to Detroit, you still have a service based out of New york.
BTW that only works if you plan on taking your number to another local carrier, so if you live in New york with a new york number and move to Detroit, you don't get to port your number to Detroit, you still have a service based out of New york.
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BlueGuy said:
what did that was that more and services are created, numbers run out since you only have 9999 combinations,thats why along with making different area codes, this helps with the issue.
What? I don't understand the above. What does porting your number have to do with making more numbers available? If I have 123-456-7890 with carrier A, and port to carrier B, that number is still taken.
According to the FCC order, it seems it had something to do with this: "The Commission found that number portability promotes competition between telecommunications service providers by, among other things, allowing customers to respond to price and service changes without changing their telephone number...
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singe said:
What? I don't understand the above. What does porting your number have to do with making more numbers available? If I have 123-456-7890 with carrier A, and port to carrier B, that number is still taken.
According to the FCC order, it seems it had something to do with this: "The Commission found that number portability promotes competition between telecommunications service providers by, among other things, allowing customers to respond to price and service changes without changing their telephone numbers." And it took since 1996. Not many people had cell phones back then; now they're ubiquitous, so there was certainly an increasing amount of public pressure to make porting finally happen.(continues)
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Check the fine print, every carrier says that it stops when the call clears the network... Just like they say the call originates from the location of the tower, not the subscriber...
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That's great, it's just too bad we don't have any control over when the calls clear the tower or what tower handles them.
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every carrier does there best to make sure the calls are cleared out of the switch ASAP.... i would say if you notice a serious discrepency and it gets annoying the best thing you can do is to call in to customer care and file a trouble ticket... if its a problem with the particular switch, we would need to know that and will get it fixed.
I remember not to long ago talking to a guy who had made a 2200 minute call, which of course he didnt make.. but it had gotten stuck in the switch 😛
I remember not to long ago talking to a guy who had made a 2200 minute call, which of course he didnt make.. but it had gotten stuck in the switch 😛
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How does a call get "cleared out"?
If it gets "stuck in the switch", it sounds like the switch is responsible for determining when the call ends, not the phone.
What's the cellular technology limitation that makes determining the end of a call so imprecise?
If it gets "stuck in the switch", it sounds like the switch is responsible for determining when the call ends, not the phone.
What's the cellular technology limitation that makes determining the end of a call so imprecise?
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singe said:
How does a call get "cleared out"?
If it gets "stuck in the switch", it sounds like the switch is responsible for determining when the call ends, not the phone.
What's the cellular technology limitation that makes determining the end of a call so imprecise?
If the call gets caught in the switch they have to call the TSD desk, to push a program signal out to "push" it through the switch to clear it out.
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But what's the mechanism that makes it take 15 seconds after you hit END before the switch realizes it?
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singe said:
But what's the mechanism that makes it take 15 seconds after you hit END before the switch realizes it?
It goes from your phone to a tower, it goes from the tower to a network routing switch, then back to your tower.
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as i said earlier, 15 seconds is a rare occurance.. it can happend.. but usually it should only take a few seconds at most for the switch to realize you disconnected the call.
When you hit the end button on your phone it send the tower this signal which in turn sends it to the switch to end the connection. your phone may show disoconnected but the switch has to know this first. It is physiclly impoossible for the switch to know the exact micro second you press the end key.... sometime a few seconds.. and rarly longer.
When you hit the end button on your phone it send the tower this signal which in turn sends it to the switch to end the connection. your phone may show disoconnected but the switch has to know this first. It is physiclly impoossible for the switch to know the exact micro second you press the end key.... sometime a few seconds.. and rarly longer.
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singe said:
How does a call get "cleared out"?
If it gets "stuck in the switch", it sounds like the switch is responsible for determining when the call ends, not the phone.
What's the cellular technology limitation that makes determining the end of a call so imprecise?
Probably the same kind of technology that causes your computer to boot up quickly one day and take forever the next--computers do get bogged down and have their little issues, y'know...
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