ETF
I've got some questions about the ETF. What is the reasoning behind it? Is it to cover lost revenue when someone leaves early or is it a type of penalty for someone that backed out of a contract?
And, on this topic, let's say I decide to cancel my contract right now. How long does it take before you can give my number to someone else? Does the FCC have regulations on stuff like that?
And, on this topic, let's say I decide to cancel my contract right now. How long does it take before you can give my number to someone else? Does the FCC have regulations on stuff like that?
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I don't not work for any wireless company but I think this is why, the etf is because they give you a discount on the phone. Like any of the phones that a company has for free with a new contract is only free for you, not the company they still have to pay for that phone and I don't know of any phone that a company can get for less than $100.00. Now they have to pay a commission to the store that sold you the phone. and that may be as much as $285.00 now you see that to get you as a customer they just paid out almost $400.00 and if you only stay with them two months at a $39.99 plan, they would have lost about $300.00 and they cant stay in business long doing that. As far as the number goes I think that when you cancel and dont port your num...
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Pretty good answer overall.
As far as keeping your number, most Cingular markets have your account in a status where they can turn it back on (or Bring Back Live) for 30 days and you will have the same number. After that it is pretty difficult as far as I have been told.
As far as keeping your number, most Cingular markets have your account in a status where they can turn it back on (or Bring Back Live) for 30 days and you will have the same number. After that it is pretty difficult as far as I have been told.
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About the number thing, I don't mean how long before I can get it back. What I mean is, how long before a NEW customer can go in the store, get a phone, and have my old number assigned to them.
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davidg4781 said:
About the number thing, I don't mean how long before I can get it back. What I mean is, how long before a NEW customer can go in the store, get a phone, and have my old number assigned to them.
Generally the cancelled number goes into a recycle bin, and taken out of circulation for 45 days.If there is a short supplies for that peticular area though like say ie: 917-226, then it could get reissued within a matter of a couple of days.
Also if someone activates a service, and they specifically request a number, and its not an active number, they can pay $50.00 and get it right away, even if it was just cancelled hours ago.
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I disagree alittle with those statements. I'm an agent and if a customer cancels within 6 months we get a charge back. So we lose the money not cingular. I would think the biggest reason for an ETF would be that they can lock you in for 1 to 2 years and they know they are gonna be earning that rate 39.99 or whatever the rate plan may be and they can give you better plans. If there were no contracts there would be constant switching of people to different carriers. I believe the ETF stablizes the wireless industry.
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Floyd said:
I disagree alittle with those statements. I'm an agent and if a customer cancels within 6 months we get a charge back. So we lose the money not cingular. I would think the biggest reason for an ETF would be that they can lock you in for 1 to 2 years and they know they are gonna be earning that rate 39.99 or whatever the rate plan may be and they can give you better plans. If there were no contracts there would be constant switching of people to different carriers. I believe the ETF stablizes the wireless industry.
Actually the main reason is cost revenue.Every quarter a corporation has projected earnings based on sales, activations everything, and they pay their bills based on those projecte...
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So, if I were to get someone to take my place as your customer, would I be able to get out of the ETF? You're losing the money you would've made with me, but in turn, I'm giving you Bob, who will pay what I would've been paying.
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or COFR(KO-fer) in rep lingo allows someonr to take over financial responsibility for duration of agreement(partial year) freeing u from obligation on a contract, while they are bound for time remaing on contract(ie 6 months out of a year)they get a fone without activation chargesand shorter commitment, you get out of ETF and service agreement 😁
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NFamous said:
or COFR(KO-fer) in rep lingo allows someonr to take over financial responsibility for duration of agreement(partial year) freeing u from obligation on a contract, while they are bound for time remaing on contract(ie 6 months out of a year)they get a fone without activation chargesand shorter commitment, you get out of ETF and service agreement 😁
But if you have a 2 year contract, in order to COFR, you MUST have LESS then 12 months to go, since cofr is oral verbal agreement to take over the contract, and you legally can only agree to 12 months or less, so if its more then 12 months then COFR won't approve it.
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On the orange side the TAR (Tranfer of Account Responsibilty) is a signed agreement, there is an $18 processing fee billed to the new customer on their first bill and it requires that there is at least 12 months left (minimum of a one year stay). Blue seems like it is a bit different.
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Do they get a new number? If I were to port my number out, and say, here's a new customer for y'all, he's going to take my place as a customer. Would you be able to do that?
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davidg4781 said:
Do they get a new number? If I were to port my number out, and say, here's a new customer for y'all, he's going to take my place as a customer. Would you be able to do that?
No, you do not.Thats the whole point each number has its own contract, if you port your number out, it cancels your line and the ETF is applied, if you do a change of financial responsibility, that means he gets your number, your plan and your contract.
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Why would I get charged an ETF? I found a customer to take my place as a customer. That's how it works with apartments. I'm responsible for the rent up until the lease ends, but the manager is required to mitigate their losses. If I said, I'm leaving, but John is going to live in my apartment from now on, I walk away Scott free (not sure who Scott is).
It's not like that in the wireless industry? Has any case been brought to court before on stuff like this? One of my professors told us how he got out of paying his ETF, what happens with people like that?
It's not like that in the wireless industry? Has any case been brought to court before on stuff like this? One of my professors told us how he got out of paying his ETF, what happens with people like that?
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This is not aprtments. you don't get to say,well i want to leave here is a guy who wants a service, so let me out of my contract.
The way you get out of your contract with no ETF is only 2 ways.YOU DIE, sorry but thats the truth, the other way is a Change of financial Responsibility, and that means they take over your number, your contract, your plan, your service.
If you take your number with you, port out, is canceling your contract on your old service with your old provider and the ETF applies.you either give him all of it, including the number and contract plan or you pay ETF when you port out, its just that simple.
The way you get out of your contract with no ETF is only 2 ways.YOU DIE, sorry but thats the truth, the other way is a Change of financial Responsibility, and that means they take over your number, your contract, your plan, your service.
If you take your number with you, port out, is canceling your contract on your old service with your old provider and the ETF applies.you either give him all of it, including the number and contract plan or you pay ETF when you port out, its just that simple.
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Well, there is a way, legally, but I'm going to choose not to post it. I'd hate to be the one responsible for letting the cat out of the bag, so to speak.
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davidg4781 said:
Well, there is a way, legally, but I'm going to choose not to post it. I'd hate to be the one responsible for letting the cat out of the bag, so to speak.
Sorry thats the only way i told you, See LNP is alllows you to take your number from one provider to another ,but it does elimate your contract from your previous carrier, so either give them the number and the cofr, and be a adult and live up to your contract, its not rocketscience!!!!!!!!!
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Ok, my last comment was just in general, not if I port my number. I mean, if I were to up and leave right now, I could possible leagally do it, without paying the ETF. It would have to do with what the ETF money is used for.
And, for the record, I'm not planning on leaving, just something I was thinking about.
And, for the record, I'm not planning on leaving, just something I was thinking about.
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davidg4781 said:
Ok, my last comment was just in general, not if I port my number. I mean, if I were to up and leave right now, I could possible leagally do it, without paying the ETF. It would have to do with what the ETF money is used for.
And, for the record, I'm not planning on leaving, just something I was thinking about.
of you mean fighting it ,and putting the ETF money into a trust.nice try, it don't work.and in the mean time, we send you off to an outside collection where obliterate your credit report,all ncie and legal.
I know i have already talked to people who have tried that and got burned SKY HIGH, and can't even get a $50.00 loan from the bank now!!!!!!!
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No, nothing dealing with a trust. The thing is, if the ETF money is to cover lost revenue, I would be legally required to pay it back, but, Cingular would be require to mitigate their losses. Meaning, the as soon as the next customer comes in the door, they would take my place as a customer and my legal financial obligation would end. If the ETF money was a penalty or a charge to keep me under contract, that kind of a fee would not hold up in court and I would not be required to pay it. If you put it on my credit report, you would have to take it off or face the FTC.
But again, that's just what is taught in business law classes, what do they know, right?
But again, that's just what is taught in business law classes, what do they know, right?
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you made the analogy of how you could give someone else your lease for an apartment and walk away "scott free". i guess the best comparison to that would be that you can walk away from the contract if you have someone to replace you, but you can't take your address with you.
does that make sense?
xoxo
does that make sense?
xoxo
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You think with the dozens (If not hundreds) of extremly over paid lawyers Wireless providers have writing up the T&C and the contracts that they would leave any loop holes?
I think not. Any wireless contract is legally binding and without any such loop holes.
You gotta think that with the many years wireless companies have been around and with the thousands of ETF's they have charged people who broke those contract that if they were doing something wrong or illegal the FCC would of mentioned something years ago..... 😕
Just a thought 😛 😛
I think not. Any wireless contract is legally binding and without any such loop holes.
You gotta think that with the many years wireless companies have been around and with the thousands of ETF's they have charged people who broke those contract that if they were doing something wrong or illegal the FCC would of mentioned something years ago..... 😕
Just a thought 😛 😛
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I never said it was illegal. Just that I wouldn't be required to pay it. I haven't found a "loophole", but I have found mistakes. I had one rep say that if I made a call at 8:45 that lasted an hour, it would be charged as a daytime call. I said that doesn't make sense and for something so backwards they should tell us. He said it was in my literature, which I had. I read through all of it and never saw it. Apparently they either forgot to give me what he was looking at or it came out afterwards. Legally, I shouldn't be charged for calls like that since that was something I found out about AFTER the contract was enacted. But, all of that equals up to about 5 min. a month, so I'm not going to care.
And maybe the wording has chang...
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And maybe the wording has chang...
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That 8:45 thing... Can't talk about Cingulars policy specificly but I do know that at least with ATTWS that point was mentioned in ATTWS Terms and Conditions.
It clearly explained how the calls are calcualted as far as NW times and stuff.
But that was ATTWS T&C.... Haven't gone over Cingulars T&C with a fine tooth comb yet 😉
But I believe its in there as well.
It clearly explained how the calls are calcualted as far as NW times and stuff.
But that was ATTWS T&C.... Haven't gone over Cingulars T&C with a fine tooth comb yet 😉
But I believe its in there as well.
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When I called, he said it's in your packet, page 6. I got the packet and read him page 6, nothing about it. He went and got the actual packet and it turned out we had differnet ones. Again, it wasn't that big of a deal with reguards to the actual problem I was having with my bill at the time. It was more like a "Oh really, I didn't know that, show me" type thing.
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Let's break what you consider mistakes and how you could possibly be right or wrong:
1)had one rep say that if I made a call at 8:45 that lasted an hour, it would be charged as a daytime call. I said that doesn't make sense and for something so backwards they should tell us. He said it was in my literature, which I had. I read through all of it and never saw it. Apparently they either forgot to give me what he was looking at or it came out afterwards. Legally, I shouldn't be charged for calls like that since that was something I found out about AFTER the contract was enacted. But, all of that equals up to about 5 min. a month, so I'm not going to care.
That statement is right, the policy for Years and Years id that your hours for peak a...
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1)had one rep say that if I made a call at 8:45 that lasted an hour, it would be charged as a daytime call. I said that doesn't make sense and for something so backwards they should tell us. He said it was in my literature, which I had. I read through all of it and never saw it. Apparently they either forgot to give me what he was looking at or it came out afterwards. Legally, I shouldn't be charged for calls like that since that was something I found out about AFTER the contract was enacted. But, all of that equals up to about 5 min. a month, so I'm not going to care.
That statement is right, the policy for Years and Years id that your hours for peak a...
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I did read the T&C. The documentation given to me didn't have that in them. I pulled out all of the paperwork that came with my phone and nothing was in it about it. Maybe I got a different version, maybe someone forgot to put it in the box, but reguardless, I was not notified (either verbally or in writing) at the time the contract was created.
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It's the complete terms and condtions, and please don't even try to say i never got it, cuz we know for a fact that you got them since it was in the piles of welcome guide info that came with you r plan and other info, ita ALL there,whether you read or not, thats your responsibility.
we have to provide you with the info, not to make you read, and BTW, you agreed to our T&C,by getting it activate the phone, otherwise it won't let you activate, so you still got no legal legs to stand on, and FYI, we got a Army of lawyers read over all T&C, and its bullet proof, that why we are the best we pay for the best, and that t&C is like bank, its a pefect safe choice, and rock solid!!!!
we have to provide you with the info, not to make you read, and BTW, you agreed to our T&C,by getting it activate the phone, otherwise it won't let you activate, so you still got no legal legs to stand on, and FYI, we got a Army of lawyers read over all T&C, and its bullet proof, that why we are the best we pay for the best, and that t&C is like bank, its a pefect safe choice, and rock solid!!!!
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I did my thing online. I got a box in the mail with a phone in it. I read over everything and called and activated it. While talking to the guy, he said look, it's in the booklet we sent you. I looked through it and told him I couldn't find it and asked him to point it out. He put me on hold while he went to get one and I read through everything again. He came back, said it's on page such and such. I said, nope, that's talking about this other thing. He was confused, I told him, look, I don't care, I have 2 minutes that are actually affected by this and $400 worth of charges to M2M calls, so we moved on to that.
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Bottom line is if you port your number to another company WE WILL ASSESS you a ETF which you will have to pay, you want out of the contract, either do a cofr anf give the person you number plan contract everything or the only other way is to DROP DEAD.
Thats it, and like someone else said, your analogy about the apartment is flawed, you can have them take over the lease, but you don't get to leave taking the address with you, now do you??????????
Thats it, and like someone else said, your analogy about the apartment is flawed, you can have them take over the lease, but you don't get to leave taking the address with you, now do you??????????
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Yes, but the landlord must mitigate their loses, meaning, they have to rent that apt. building to the next person that wishes to rent an apt. at his building. Same thing with Cingular. If I leave, you would be required by law to give my number to the next person that comes into the store wanting a contract. If not, Cingular chose to let thier losses grow when they could have cut them. I would be required to pay up until the next guy comes in. That's the law. You can have all kinds of stuff in your T&C, but the bottom line is, a judge will find in favor for me. Most people don't bother filing suit for $200, but for companies with many contracts and a high ETF, they probaly settle or something. That's what my professor did. It happene...
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Yopu really want to compare an apartment to a cell phone, i got news for you junior, you smokin some of the good stuff, an apartment is a dwelling, a shelter, a neccessity of life as defined by the government.The same government defines a wireless phone a luxury, something you don't have to have in order to live.
The law says we have the right to sell service to whoever we want based on our requirements, not the ones set by you, and what you think is fair, we do that, so long as we use those eligibility requirements to everyone equally, thats also the law.
Please do, sue over the ETF, cuz i would love for you too!I'm begging ya, please sue, i love getting those threats to give them what they want or they will sue.
I got news for yo...
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The law says we have the right to sell service to whoever we want based on our requirements, not the ones set by you, and what you think is fair, we do that, so long as we use those eligibility requirements to everyone equally, thats also the law.
Please do, sue over the ETF, cuz i would love for you too!I'm begging ya, please sue, i love getting those threats to give them what they want or they will sue.
I got news for yo...
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OK, enough!!!
austin316, you are wrong about an aweful lot here so relax.
You can port out your number to another carrier and keep your service with Cingular. First off, you need to pre-arrange it with Cingular. Second, you need to call into them after the port is completed to perform a number change. You will be charged the fee to change your number. It works, I have done it for a dozen customers.
davidg4781, please come back to the real world. Your professors are teaching theory without reading the actual agreement. You also checked a box when your ordered online saying you agree to all the terms and conditions (with a link to read them if you choose). In that version of the terms and conditions is where all the secrets of ...
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austin316, you are wrong about an aweful lot here so relax.
You can port out your number to another carrier and keep your service with Cingular. First off, you need to pre-arrange it with Cingular. Second, you need to call into them after the port is completed to perform a number change. You will be charged the fee to change your number. It works, I have done it for a dozen customers.
davidg4781, please come back to the real world. Your professors are teaching theory without reading the actual agreement. You also checked a box when your ordered online saying you agree to all the terms and conditions (with a link to read them if you choose). In that version of the terms and conditions is where all the secrets of ...
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Austin are you blue or orange? As far as I know on the orange side we cannot get a vanity number for an oranage account. That was something we could do on a blue account though. (I hated having to do that)
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On that note I once had a cust pay another cust $100 to buy back a number that was on all this business cards
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That is honestly the best explanation I have ever heard from anyone NOT in the wireless business...Have you ever been in the business?
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