lol..

why dont you tell us your view?

conquest said:
The only thing that needs to GROW here is your maturity level. I have never seen a person so dedicated to trolling a phone forum for a company he no longer has a subscription with.

🤣 🤣 🤣

conquest said:
The only thing that needs to GROW here is your maturity level. I have never seen a person so dedicated to trolling a phone forum for a company he no longer has a subscription with.

Frustrating isn't it? I understand and am enjoying the gnashing of teeth over there.

Too bad Cingualar was not as "dedicated" as I to providing reliable service at a reasonable price. They have NO business charging as much as Verizon for service.
But the activations on both accounts already prove that much. Verizon will pass Cingular.

TenMidgits said:

conquest said:
The only thing that needs to GROW here is your maturity level. I have never seen a person so dedicated to trolling a phone forum for a company he no longer has a subscription with.

Frustrating isn't it? I understand and am enjoying the gnashing of teeth over there.

Too bad Cingualar was not as "dedicated" as I to providing reliable service at a reasonable price. They have NO business charging as much as Verizon for service.
But the activations on both accounts already prove that much. Verizon will pass Cingular.

You know, I can understand your bashing at 867k net additions, but at 1.8 million??? You have real problems, my friend. If C...
(continues)

Thank you SForsyth01. I was starting to feel alone here. And I'm in the Cingular Forum!!!! 😳

Could he bash if the fact that the 1.8 milion includes:

Pre-Paid
Resellers
and MVNO's
and that actual net Post-Paid Cingular adds were only about 640K.

Like this article seems to say

"Cingular said it added 1.8 million net new subscribers compared with average estimates for about 1 million, from four analysts contacted by Reuters."

The customer growth included 840,000 direct customers, with the rest coming from resellers such as TracFone Wireless, a unit of America Movil (AMX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , which Cingular spokesman Mark Siegel said represented most of the reseller growth.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/financeQuoteCompanyNewsArti ... »

actually that isnt 840k direct ads.. it is actually 650k (unless they mean they are taking the 840 with the direct ads and the prepaid)

SForsyth01 said:

TenMidgits said:

conquest said:
The only thing that needs to GROW here is your maturity level. I have never seen a person so dedicated to trolling a phone forum for a company he no longer has a subscription with.

Frustrating isn't it? I understand and am enjoying the gnashing of teeth over there.

Too bad Cingualar was not as "dedicated" as I to providing reliable service at a reasonable price. They have NO business charging as much as Verizon for service.
But the activations on both accounts already prove that much. Verizon will pass Cingular.

You know, I can understand your bashing at 867k net additions, but at 1.8 million??? You

...
(continues)

TenMidgits said:

SForsyth01 said:

TenMidgits said:

conquest said:
The only thing that needs to GROW here is your maturity level. I have never seen a person so dedicated to trolling a phone forum for a company he no longer has a subscription with.

Frustrating isn't it? I understand and am enjoying the gnashing of teeth over there.

Too bad Cingualar was not as "dedicated" as I to providing reliable service at a reasonable price. They have NO business charging as much as Verizon for service.
But the activations on both accounts already prove that much. Verizon will pass Cingular.

You know, I can understand your bashing at 867k net

...
(continues)

IN Q2004 They had the benefit of massive press due to the merger. There is no way without changing the metric they did the same business.

TenMidgits said:
IN Q2004 They had the benefit of massive press due to the merger. There is no way without changing the metric they did the same business.

Why is it so hard for you to realize that Cingular eventually (after network integration is complete/ and churn is reduced even more -this is gonna happen naturally as the network improves even more) will be the number one choice in the US for cell phone service....
-Best Phones
-Real World Phones
-GSM... -need I say more?

Amen, lol. On a more personal level, I was a Verizon customer for years. I never neccesarily had "trouble" with them...but they were never particularly impressive as far as customer service and even coverage was concerned. When I became a Cingular rep and was forced to convert to our service, I noticed a phenomenal improvement in every possible angle. I wish I'd known then what I know now...I would have dropped Verizon on their ass 5 years ago.

Anxiovert said:
Why is it so hard for you to realize that Cingular eventually (after network integration is complete/ and churn is reduced even more -this is gonna happen naturally as the network improves even more) will be the number one choice in the US for cell phone service....
-Best Phones
-Real World Phones
-GSM... -need I say more?

Don't hate on me, but I'm still pretty sure Verizon will pass Cing for the #1 spot within a year.

Cing had a good quarter (finally), but they've lost about half their lead in customer count in the year since the merger. They took an ARPU hit to right the ship in net adds, but VZW matches that move (hello $59 Family Plans) an' they're probably back to beatin' Cing deci...
(continues)

I see TenMidgets point. Cingular Purchased its customers from AT&T. Most of them ar very unhappy about the merger and are leaving.

The ones that left are leaving because they got used to getting everything there way for there price. Thats why ATTWS went out of business. Cingular doesnt pass out freebies unless its warranted or a promo. Same thing goes for Sprint and Verizon. T-Mobile use to bend over and take it from there customers but thats slowly changing as of this year as well with there low plans ending... there 1500 minute plan raising and there end to 1 year contracts being the norm....either way I would expect a certain amount of people to leave a company if it was bought out by another company and the people involved had no choice over it. Usually the ones that whine the most end up being the cheap customers who have a old 19.99 plan and bring little to the co...
(continues)

nextel18 said:
however, the main question was; do you think that Verizon will be number 1 at the end of 2006?

Hmmmm! the question burns him to death!!! lol

Verizon is less than 3 million subscribers away. Let's see if yoou look at last quarter Verizon added 1 million more subscribers than cingular. So by doing the math. There are 4 Quarters in 2006. It only takes three of those four to be just like 3Q 2005 and Verizon is back on the throne.


I do have to clap my hands on the dropping prices as much as possible to get adds.
It actually worked a little.

The funny thing is Verizon did not change a thing and they still got more adds.

i can here me now said:
The funny thing is Verizon did not change a thing and they still got more adds.

Wrong!
Cingular had more adds than Verizon. Verizon had more NET adds (cuz they have a lower churn) but WE Cingular attract more new users. It's just those dang unhappy ATT customers that hurts us mostly (by leaving)

Yep, Cing had more gross adds, but Verizon had more net adds 'cus of Cing havin' way higher churn than Verizon.

Of course, not all'a dat is on the ATT customers. I'm pretty sure Cing had higher churn than Verizon even before they merged with ATT. But ATT customers do make it worse, I grant ya.

hey system...

it doesnt make a differnt about Gross adds, becuase it is about what NET adds you get.

just like if you have positive Gross revenue and have a negative (NET) revenue at the end of filling in your numbers you are in big trouble..

it is about NET not GROSS.

nextel18 said:
hey system...

it doesnt make a differnt about Gross adds, becuase it is about what NET adds you get.

just like if you have positive Gross revenue and have a negative (NET) revenue at the end of filling in your numbers you are in big trouble..

it is about NET not GROSS.

Gross does show which company is better attracting new customers. Gross is an important metric in addition to net, just not as important in this particular instance.

hey SF how ya doing?

lol.. gross is not an important metric lol. its just saying if you have a gross income of 1 million per year but actually have Net income of only 200k there is a big differnce.. (which is very obvious)

NET adds are much more important then Gross adds..

if you get 4 million gross adds but only have a net of 500,000. what does it make a differnce if you get that big amount of gross? lol nothing.

so gross means nothing.

nextel18 said:
hey SF how ya doing?

lol.. gross is not an important metric lol. its just saying if you have a gross income of 1 million per year but actually have Net income of only 200k there is a big differnce.. (which is very obvious)

NET adds are much more important then Gross adds..

if you get 4 million gross adds but only have a net of 500,000. what does it make a differnce if you get that big amount of gross? lol nothing.

so gross means nothing.

Hey Nextel, I'm great....especially now that I know you still haven't learned how to read. Have fun with your trolling and warped business beliefs. 🙄

i came to say hi and be nice to you rather you are resorting to insults.. hmm. i guess you havnt changed your ways.

learn how to read? perhaps you dont understand the concept that gross means nothing becuase it is what you actually get IE net.

nextel18 said:
i came to say hi and be nice to you rather you are resorting to insults.. hmm. i guess you havnt changed your ways.

learn how to read? perhaps you dont understand the concept that gross means nothing becuase it is what you actually get IE net.

Cool, thanks for the business education. I will remember to take it with a grain of salt like I do with the rest of the things you say.

🙂 if you dont care like you claim then forget about me and posting to me.

nextel18 said:
🙂 if you dont care like you claim then forget about me and posting to me.

And let the general public think that the entire industry is geared the way you say it is???? Never. 😈

and you are the general public police? lol.. oh yea i forgot .. you have nothing better to do then post on here lol.

Actually, I think that Gross ads does play a part in understanding how the quarter played out. Look at how many gross ads that Cingular had to invest in to grow their customer base compared to what net adds they recieved, and then compare that to other carriers. Each net add is about revenue. Each gross add is about the cost of adding a subscriber (the phone subsidy, the rep's commission, the cost of adding capacity to handle the subs info, advertising, promotions, etc.).
Think of it this way, if a carrier had 30 m customers and a churn of 0%, then if they added 1 m net adds, they had 1 m gross. But if they had 100% churn, then they had to sign up 31 m customers to get 1 m net adds.
The big difference in the 3Q between Cingular and V...
(continues)

i have been great. 🙂 i have just been busy with things here and been traveling.. 🙂 how about ya?

it is difficult to explain to people why you think it is better to be having a gross or having a net.. i look at it like this...

if someone gets 10 million gross ads but their net adds are only 2 million.. who cares about what the gross adds where? i certaintly dont. just like with the income example.. would you want 1 million gross or 250k net? easy.. 250k net.

Agreed, but in this case the amount of gross income indicates how *hard* you had to work to get the net. All things being equal, I'd rather not work as hard to get my 250k as the next guy. Or my 2 million net adds.

exactly... if you get a gross of 2 million but only get a net of 500k something is wrong.. you paid to get 2 million but only got 500k. not too good.

i would rather get 500k net then 2 million gross. that is just how i feel. anyway.. lol.

Hmmm... Can't find VZW's report of gross adds. Don't know what to make of it. Anybody else seen it?

I can’t find the gross ads either, and it isn’t really important especially since you top 2 million net subscribers with a 1.2% churn rate.

gross show the marketing popularity. churun to the net add shows who did'nt get satisfactory or their wasy with cingular. so gross does show so footprint. but in the end it does boil down to net.

exactly. as I mentioned before would you rather get 1 million dollars in gross or 250k in net? it is an obvious answer and I am not sure why people are questioning it.

NET is far more important then Gross in many aspects including this one.

nextel18 said:
i have been great. 🙂 i have just been busy with things here and been traveling.. 🙂 how about ya?

it is difficult to explain to people why you think it is better to be having a gross or having a net.. i look at it like this...

if someone gets 10 million gross ads but their net adds are only 2 million.. who cares about what the gross adds where? i certaintly dont. just like with the income example.. would you want 1 million gross or 250k net? easy.. 250k net.

Its the ONLY number they can hang their hat on. Its HOPE! Although its not a great metric.

Nextel, you didn't.

You twisted his statement and ripped him for his belief. That is what you contstantly compalin about and YOU are guilty of it first this time around and got busted.

SF retaliated yes, but very reasonable considering the circumstances.

Gosh it was nice not reading this crap.

Here it goes again.

texaswireless said:
Nextel, you didn't.

You twisted his statement and ripped him for his belief. That is what you contstantly compalin about and YOU are guilty of it first this time around and got busted.

SF retaliated yes, but very reasonable considering the circumstances.

Gosh it was nice not reading this crap.

Here it goes again.

Hey, Tex, thanks for the support. I'm sure the whole argument will die down after a few days. I have made a concerted effort to not pour into his amazing ideas. I just had to call the large errors out.

You've shown amazing restraint 😁

texaswireless said:
You've shown amazing restraint 😁

Thank you. I have tried. 😁

I need your guidance on my Verizon account as its time to upgrade, that is if you have any knowledge of CDMA phones. I am looking at getting either the LG VX9800 or the RAZR. I was also looking at the Treo 700 but it doesn't have V-Cast so I don't know that I want something that won't do video (unless I can access full blown internet on it and watch news clips that way then it would work). So, Which one am I best off with?

My buddy who owns Verizon stores carries the V-Cast LG and likes it very much. His wife carries the RAZR and likes it as well. Don't think you'll go wrong with either.

Don't know much about the 700W but I thought it did have EVDO.

The LG is slightly larger but the screen quality is awesome in my opinion.

texaswireless said:
My buddy who owns Verizon stores carries the V-Cast LG and likes it very much. His wife carries the RAZR and likes it as well. Don't think you'll go wrong with either.

Don't know much about the 700W but I thought it did have EVDO.

The LG is slightly larger but the screen quality is awesome in my opinion.

The Treo does have EVDO, but it does not have the software to allow it to run V-Cast. It only uses EVDO for internet access and email.

Which would you get between the RAZR and the 9800 if it was you making the purchase?

I liked the LG personally. Looked pretty cool. I have never been a huge personal fan of the RAZR style though, so the new one didn't impress me.

LMAO

nextel18 said:
hey SF how ya doing?

lol.. gross is not an important metric lol. its just saying if you have a gross income of 1 million per year but actually have Net income of only 200k there is a big differnce.. (which is very obvious)

NET adds are much more important then Gross adds..

if you get 4 million gross adds but only have a net of 500,000. what does it make a differnce if you get that big amount of gross? lol nothing.

so gross means nothing.

Gross adds isn't an important metric?

What happens when Cingular starts consistently lowering their churn levels? Cingular has had the highest gross subscriber adds each quarter for years, and if you start seeing that churn level continue ...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:

nextel18 said:
hey SF how ya doing?

lol.. gross is not an important metric lol. its just saying if you have a gross income of 1 million per year but actually have Net income of only 200k there is a big differnce.. (which is very obvious)

NET adds are much more important then Gross adds..

if you get 4 million gross adds but only have a net of 500,000. what does it make a differnce if you get that big amount of gross? lol nothing.

so gross means nothing.

Gross adds isn't an important metric?

What happens when Cingular starts consistently lowering their churn levels? Cingular has had the highest gross subscriber adds each quarter for years, and if you star

...
(continues)

RUFF1415 said:
Gross adds isn't an important metric?

What happens when Cingular starts consistently lowering their churn levels? Cingular has had the highest gross subscriber adds each quarter for years, and if you start seeing that churn level continue to fall, what will becom of the metric then?

Yeah...I'd say that gross adds is an extremely important metric. It's definitely something for other companies, especially Verizon, to look out for.

Cingular's gross adds are something Verizon could only dream of.

Amen!
I couldnt had said it better
How are you RUFF? Long time no see!

I was feeling a bit under the weather for awhile but I'm doing well now.

How about yourself?

hope you feel better..

Nice and sunny here in FL 😛 I hope you get better!

There's no place I'd rather be than Pittsburgh right now. Except of course, Detroit. 😛

Thanks.

lol.. i wouldnt want to be in detriot especially for the superbowl.. heard some horrible things about that place.. (bulletproof vests lol)

Well good for you. As a Steelers fan, the location of the Super Bowl doesn't matter much. Just as long as we're there.

well i am a bronco fan, and i have to give kudos on a great game.. i have tix to the superbowl however, i wont be going becuase it is in detriot one of the worst areas lol in this country..

that should be a great game... i want steelers to win so the BUS can retire on a high note.

Well I won't be seeing you in Detroit then.

yea.. i dont feel like being 50 cent there. lol.

i hope you have fun.. lol. if you dont have vip and pre and party passes dont bother..

I'm going with my cousin, actually. She's dating Jeff Reed (the Steeler's place kicker) and had four of his tickets. My uncle (her dad) decided he wouldn't be able to go and I lucked out.

I probably won't be in Detroit much other than gameday. Hotels are booked.

hope you have good tickets with the passes becuase that is how you are supposed to do it.. everytime i go i always have that.. you cant go to the biggest game and having something less...

yea i hope you just go to the game then go home.. not worth staying...

good luck and stay safe!

Thanks! It should be an interesting experience. I don't know when I would ever have the chance to do this again.

i went to the superbowls plenty of times especially with the pats and denver broncos, and it is fun especially the pre and post parties and having a police escort. lol (the police escort is nothing bad but i just sit with the players lol)

i hope you have good seats.... i guess if you dont bring a small tv lol.

what is your expectation? i know you are choosing the steelers but what do you think the score will be?

I can't make a prediction. Steeler superstition... I haven't made a true prediction all year, just kept the faith that they'd do what they came to do.

I'm really looking forward to winning it for Bettis's sake though...and to see Plaxico crying in NY. 😈

hahha. yea..

i want bettis to win also becuase he is retiring ..

nextel18 said:
i wont be going becuase it is in detriot one of the worst areas lol in this country..

You should probably not talk about areas that you obviously know nothing about. Alot of Detroit is VERY nice. And I know first hand as I have visited many friends that live there. It is a VERY small section of the city that is bad -- and most people won't be anywhere near that.

yes gross isnt an important metric becuase it comes to the bottom line, which is your net.

as i gave the other example.. if you got a gross income of 1 million but turned out to have a gross income of actually 250k, the 1 million means nothing becuase you dont actually get that.

i mean i know SF doesnt understand but perhaps someone like you will.

nextel18 said:
yes gross isnt an important metric becuase it comes to the bottom line, which is your net.

as i gave the other example.. if you got a gross income of 1 million but turned out to have a gross income of actually 250k, the 1 million means nothing becuase you dont actually get that.

i mean i know SF doesnt understand but perhaps someone like you will.

You're missing the crucial point that Cingular's gross adds are consistent. That is, consistently 4+ million gross adds each quarter, and in this case 5 million gross adss.

If Cingular continues a decline in churn and sustains a low level, you'll quickly see net adds becoming VERY similar to gross adds. That's how gross adds are importan...
(continues)

i am not missing any point what-so-ever. the point is, gross means nothing. it is what you actually obtain. (ie net)

nextel18 said:
i am not missing any point what-so-ever. the point is, gross means nothing. it is what you actually obtain. (ie net)

Well when your gross is that high, and your churn is low enough for your net adds to be exetremely similar to gross adds, its going to matter.

Point made. It's yours to miss...again.

wrong. obviously this will just go back and forth becuase you think gross is important while i think that net is important.. so this will just go around and around.. we will just agree to disagree.

i am not missing anything and you arent either..

again.. i would rather have net then gross you would rather have gross then net.. so yea.. lol.

When net and gross are so similar, it's not going to matter which one you go by.

Low churn and high gross adds are going to cause an inarguably small gap between net and gross. It's called math.

At that point the terms net and gross become moot. Therefore, high gross adds are extremely important.

nextel18 said:
yes gross isnt an important metric becuase it comes to the bottom line, which is your net.

as i gave the other example.. if you got a gross income of 1 million but turned out to have a gross income of actually 250k, the 1 million means nothing becuase you dont actually get that.

i mean i know SF doesnt understand but perhaps someone like you will.

Once again -- I will continue to take everything you say with a grain of salt until you show some semblance of understanding that all metrics are important (gross vs net) as long as they are taken in the appropriate context.

um you are wrong. lol. its about NET adds, my friend. doesnt make any differnce about gross ads becuase it is all about NET .

nextel18 said:
um you are wrong. lol. its about NET adds, my friend. doesnt make any differnce about gross ads becuase it is all about NET .

I know that silly. My point here is that Cingular brings more plp in! We bring more plp into our stores. Verizon is better at keeping custs more than us; but this is changing. 1.9 Postpaid Churn (our lowest ever!) 😁

yea, the postpaid churn is quite nice..

well when cingular only signs up around 660k direct vs verizon's 2 million net adds( i dont think it is that high with direct adds probably like 1.95 million direct) that shows that verizon will destroy cingular throughout this year. and if we base it on over all quarterly numbers same thing...

churn means something but unfort, verizon keeps on doing better then cingular. i think that will continue in 2006.

nextel18 said:
well when cingular only signs up around 660k direct vs verizon's 2 million net adds( i dont think it is that high with direct adds probably like 1.95 million direct) that shows that verizon will destroy cingular throughout this year. and if we base it on over all quarterly numbers same thing...

You keep finding more and more reasons to put Cingular down, don't you? Fact is they had a great quarter no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter what channel they add their NET customers to, just so they keep them at this level or higher.

i am putting down a company if they dont do well, and cingular didnt what so ever, especially when it comes to direct adds. they did well on their prepaid, which was struggling and did great on their wholesale/resell but they did horrible on their direct and that usually what counts the most becuase they attach the arpu onto that while on the prepaid and wholesale will get a lot less then the current arpu. i said i was happy with what they got, but i was not happy with their mix.

nextel18 said:
i am putting down a company if they dont do well, and cingular didnt what so ever, especially when it comes to direct adds. they did well on their prepaid, which was struggling and did great on their wholesale/resell but they did horrible on their direct and that usually what counts the most becuase they attach the arpu onto that while on the prepaid and wholesale will get a lot less then the current arpu. i said i was happy with what they got, but i was not happy with their mix.

There is just no pleasing you. 1.8 million net ads is great for Cingular no matter what Channel added those customers. But I will allow you to keep your warped business sense as it has gained you so much respect.

"But I will allow you to keep your warped business sense as it has gained you so much respect."

you always repeat yourself dont ya? you said this in the last post. by the way respect from you? lol i dont care.

no pleasing me? didnt you see that i already praised them a few times but i am saying they need to do better with their subscriber additions mix.

yet you said i need to read better? hahahahaha.

nextel18 said:
i am putting down a company if they dont do well, and cingular didnt what so ever,

Ok you stupid tolls. Now you're contradicting yourself
What's this? This is what you posted when you stated this thread...

https://www.phonescoop.com/carriers/forum.php?fm=m&f ... »
Now, you came here saying you're not moved by the resutls of Q4?

i posted that just based on the 1.8, but not about its mix of obtaining the new subscribers. i said the 1.8 is great but the actual net direct adds were horrible.

Oh, and BTW your s/n makes no sense.

no because the consumer want controll and not locked out features. such as a phone that was sent from from samsung with camera AND flash but vzw locks the flash on the a850. it was sold as a phone that had flash and they call it an upgrade to the 670 🙄 .

millions will leave and if not go or go back to cingy to t-mobile or sprint.

sowhatsowhat10 said:
no because the consumer want controll and not locked out features. such as a phone that was sent from from samsung with camera AND flash but vzw locks the flash on the a850. it was sold as a phone that had flash and they call it an upgrade to the 670 🙄 .

millions will leave and if not go or go back to cingy to t-mobile or sprint.

Really? Verizon has been doing this for years.....and still added RECORD numbers of new activations. Sorry don't see evidance of people leaving in droves or staying away because of clipped BT and other business decisions.

Cingular has all the fetures implimented and STILL is losing out to Verizon. People want RELAIBILITY first not bells and whistles...
(continues)

You said no just based on that? You must be kidding me. Verizon wireless continues to dominate this industry with net adds in a quarter by quarter basis. Just based on that fact, it will show that Verizon will be number 1 again at the end of this year.

UOQuack said:
As you say, keeping them IS the story. And as Nextel pointed out, Cingular's churn is down in 4Q2005. The journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.

Yeah but you need healthy feet.....

TenMidgits said:

UOQuack said:
As you say, keeping them IS the story. And as Nextel pointed out, Cingular's churn is down in 4Q2005. The journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step.

Yeah but you need healthy feet.....

Which you obviously lack since your form of exercise is typing on here. Not much of a way to maintain healthy feet if you ask me. 🙄

why do you care what he does? you seem to like other peoples lives then your own. (or in their lives)

they didnt do well with their net adds at all though.. it is ashamed..

They actuall did as expected. Poorly.

no way without funny accounting did Cingular add 1.8 million. I count 600K direct. Am I wrong? Did Cingular add 1.8 new clean activations?

yea it is actually 636,000 direct net adds.

most of it was prepaid and resale.

i mean you can adds those becuase they are recognized as revenue but i wouldnt have. i would have only added prepaid not resale. seems like a lot of companies are doing that.

nextel18 said:
they didnt do well with their net adds at all though.. it is ashamed..

1.8 million is not good to you now??? You have lost your mind.

yea, you have seem to lost it yourself.

i am saying that 1.8 million is GREAT, but the mix isnt.

nextel18 said:
yea, you have seem to lost it yourself.

i am saying that 1.8 million is GREAT, but the mix isnt.

Whatever! you're starting to contradict yourself again! 🙄

no im not.. you have to re-read all my posts..

let me say it one more time so you can understand....

the overall 1.8 million is great HOWEVER, the individual metrics including direct adds are horrible...

people seem if they dont agree with you they say stupid statements..

🤣

To be fair, Ten was right when he said:

Verizon will STILL beat Cingular in net activations as usual.

Verizon reported today getting 2.0 million net adds for Q4, so yeah, they still beat Cing.

That said, what Cingular did in Q4 was still very impressive even though they couldn't beat VZW.

Do gotta wonder how reproducible it is, tho'. Verizon didn't bother matching Cing's $49 & $59 Family plans when they were intro'd. Better than even money that'll change.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Verizon's numbers dont' come out until Thursday, right? So as of now 2 million is an estimate, and you're assuming it's correct.

Why don't we just wait two more days? 🙂

Verizon press released it, so I think they're pretty confident. They just jumped the gun two days early to steal Cing's thunder:

http://news.vzw.com/news/2006/01/pr2006-01-24.html »

Not very nice o' them, but that's competition. 😕

SystemShock said:
Verizon press released it, so I think they're pretty confident. They just jumped the gun two days early to steal Cing's thunder:

http://news.vzw.com/news/2006/01/pr2006-01-24.html »

Not very nice o' them, but that's competition. 😕

Verizon added 20% MORE then last year! Cingular barely made the same numbers. And the Cingular dwweebs are praising their "slow and steady" sudden rise......It won't last.

RUFF1415 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Verizon's numbers dont' come out until Thursday, right? So as of now 2 million is an estimate, and you're assuming it's correct.

Why don't we just wait two more days? 🙂

The 2 million net adds figure for VZW is now official:

http://news.vzw.com/news/2006/01/pr2006-01-26.html »

And churn dropped to 1.2 percent (1.0 percent postpaid!).

I also posted this information today on the Verizon Wireless board. 🙂

Don't see it.

Weird. And in my browser, it shows that post as one I already clicked on, even tho' I never went into that post/read it.

Ah well. Thanks fo' doin' the grunt work, Nexty. 🙂

No problem, it is technology it sometimes messes up.

To be fair, Ten isn't here to try and "discuss" matters with any logic whatsoever. His posts are so filled with spite and anger his true feeling show through all too easily. These numbers counter all the points he has tried to make.

Lower churn, higher sales. Doesn't sound like a company in trouble does it, regardless of how well anyone else does in comparison. Cingular has been trimming the fat for most of 2005. Most intelligent people here said it was designed to do what it did, period. Lower churn, better retention, etc. was their goal.

Or more basically, to get their **** together. They are doing it no matter how many tenmidgits want to argue kicking and screaming. Slow and steady is fine by me.

I won't argue that Cing seems to be improvin', if one quarter can be a guide.

But you gotta be careful in givin' Ten too much power over y'all. Yes, he comes off as one bitter critter. But when you let 'im get you mad, thats no good either.

If you're confident in where Cing's going, then let time and the results show Ten wrong... if you're right, they'll do so repeatedly. No need ta jump on the hatewagon wit' him.

System,

Churn has been steadily improving since 2004. That is not one quarter. And with the EXCEPTION of one quarter Cingular has had steady ads as well.

I know you are smarter than that to say this is a possibly one quarter abnormality.

texaswireless said:
System,

Churn has been steadily improving since 2004. That is not one quarter. And with the EXCEPTION of one quarter Cingular has had steady ads as well.

I know you are smarter than that to say this is a possibly one quarter abnormality.

Actually Tex, in Q3, Cing's churn went UP.

Its not been improving every quarter since '04. Honestly.

2.6 percent to 1.9 percent over a 5 quarter time period is a downward trend. In ANY business class that is basic information.

Trend is downward... with some bumps. 🙂

texaswireless said:
These numbers completely contradict what you have been and currently are saying.

These numbers back up what many in the know have been saying.

Cingular has been concentrating on churn and would ramp up advertising when they felt their system was ready.

They did and they DID!

Now that the numbers can't back up your musings will you change your position to something else? As always, wrong again you are!

As usual your puffing is blowing on deaf ears. They changed the measurment metric. TRACPHONE????? LOL You make me laugh.

Cingular will lose their customer count to Verizon as they should. The trend is STILL there. Verizon is adding record amounts of new activations DIRECT!...
(continues)

Yet you ignore churn as it trend against your predictions.

Keep being selective, it helps show how transparent you really are.

texaswireless said:
Yet you ignore churn as it trend against your predictions.

Keep being selective, it helps show how transparent you really are.

ONE positive swing number does not equaal a trend......maybe in your world. Cingular added more then Verizon 4Q 2005. Not much of a trend there was there Einstein?

Hmmmm, churn has consistently gone down quarter by quarter since late 2004. That is 5 in a row, not one. Must not have had to use math in that job you retired from eh?

texaswireless said:
Hmmmm, churn has consistently gone down quarter by quarter since late 2004. That is 5 in a row, not one. Must not have had to use math in that job you retired from eh?

Well you can hang your hat on 1/10th of 1% if you like and call it a trend. Reasonable people will not see it the same way. Not exactly a convincing pull away........But break open the bottle and enjoy because soon Cingular will be number two again in customers and further back in the other metrics against even T Mobile.....

Hmmmm,

1.9 percent now
2.6 percent last year

26 % drop.

On what are YOU basing your numbers?

previous quarter. 2% post paid churn vs 1.9% this quarter.

5 quarters in a row you moron.

and 1/10th of a percent is still a 5% drop in churn.

At a customer base of over 50 million customers that is 50,000 customers.

sowhatsowhat10 said:
uggg it sounds as if verizon will be in that same boat too. with the locking out of all their phone and bluetooth features.

they have been doing that for years. AND STILL ADDED 2 MILLION trending up up up.......

When you have RECOGNIZED good reliability and service you can obviously get away with those things.

Toyota does not have OnStar.........GM is tetering on bankruptcy....Go figure.

what! no they haven't been doing that for years. and people are upset about it. assuringly they would leave if they didn't have to pay an etf but they are stuck for some time.

sowhatsowhat10 said:
what! no they haven't been doing that for years. and people are upset about it. assuringly they would leave if they didn't have to pay an etf but they are stuck for some time.

Verizon has been clipping BT for more then two years. those who wanted to leave because of it have left. Not many. And those who chose Verizon number 2 million. People will pay the ETF if it gets that bad. People pay Cingular ETF fees everyday.......

🤣 .

you my friend are funny. vzw will go down sooner than later. the only thing that keep them in the hunt is the fact that the map has more red than white. when customers start to realize that coverage is only important where they need it that when they will fall.

crippled bluetooth and various other features WILL hurt verizon in the long run. the only people that dont care are the ones that only know bluetooth involes wireless sync between phone and headset. just ask the v710 owners. 🤭 .

and tell me why the samsung a850 has two flashes on the front but NONE are operable? and its listed as a phone with flash.

my friend they not only lock up bluetooth but freedom too. taking phones bact to where they came from. EXPENS...
(continues)

sangyup81 said:
Oh yeah and those $49.99 and $59.99 family plans show that cell phone customers are still cheap. =P

Did you know they made a $29.99 National Plan for 200 Anytime Minutes and 1000 N&W Minutes available?

Might be fairer to say that a lotta the new customers comin' in are cheap. But that's gonna happen, since the industry is finally nearing saturation in the US. The less desirable customers are more of what's left to get now.

Oh, an' I don' see that 200 Anytime plan online.. is it only for some zip codes? I like that they're doin' it, might prompt some other carriers to do the same thing.

😕 those pland weren't even heavily marketed. they were to really slow down churn and be a save tactic. as a matter of fact i have yet to see them in a brochure. or on tv. on the web yes the have a tiny spot but thats it unless you come into a cingy store being cheap.

I don't think it's anywhere near as extreme for Verizon though

We're talking about more than a 150% jump in activations

heh.. I wish my store's numbers had jumped 150% this Christmas. God what a crappy year 2005 was for us.

My store's activations doubled. I bet it was the malls that got the highest increase.

congrats. 🙂

what market is this?

Washington-Baltimore

nice. have you increased net adds over a quarter by quarter basis or year by year basis?

i dont think they know that one. 🤣

lol. dont be so mean.

I was talking monthly. My store is a year and a half old. My company's opened 4 more stores in that time too.

nextel18 said:
actually the 4th quarter seems to be a great year for the wireless industry as a whole.

True.
So verizon did horrible then. They only added what? 100,000 than 3Q\
and we added more than double!
Now, who had a better quarter?

well verizon did great. 2 million net adds are very impressive when i bet 95 percent of those were direct adds, however, cingular's net adds were actually very dissapointing becuase yes the overall were quite good however, most of those adds were becuase of prepaid and wholesale/resell then actually net direct adds.

verizon had the better quarter. 🙂

What TF is your problem? Do you think that when VZ adds 1.8M custs are all Brand Spanking New F*** direct postpaid too?
please give me a break!

wow why are we swearing? according to their annual reports 95-99 percent are from direct net adds.

they are better then the direct net adds that cingular got though.

riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Cust Vz has no pre-paid phones. No-one buys a pre-paid phone from VZ. Okey? 🙄 w/e!

no no.. they have prepaid phones, however, it hasnt been fairing well in fact it has been declining quite often. check out their quarter numbers and their annual reports.. you will see. their mix is mostly 95 percent postpaid.

Anxiovert said:
riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Cust Vz has no pre-paid phones. No-one buys a pre-paid phone from VZ. Okey? 🙄 w/e!

I will vouch for Nextel18 on this one (imagine that), VZW does VERY little Prepaid business. VERY Little.

SForsyth01 said:

Anxiovert said:
riiiiiiiiiiiiight!
Cust Vz has no pre-paid phones. No-one buys a pre-paid phone from VZ. Okey? 🙄 w/e!

I will vouch for Nextel18 on this one (imagine that), VZW does VERY little Prepaid business. VERY Little.

LMFAO 🤣

did he actually say that? wow i am suprised lol.

nextel18 said:
did he actually say that? wow i am suprised lol.

I have no problem giving you credit when you are right. It is just that I normally don't agree with you. In this instance, I do.

it is ok if you dont agree with me, becuase that is life and people can voice their own opinions... but to say the things you do, seems to me that you are immature if someone doesnt agree with you..

perhaps you should be polite if you agree with someone or disagree.. you would be liked more..

Also a good point.

Carriers who sell the most handsets get better pricing than others. They also get more options for exclusive handsets.

With the exception of the carriers churn is actually a good thing for most of the industry. More handsets to be purchased, more customers to leave and come back, etc.

Handset manufacturers are not as concerned with churn as they are with the consumer itch cycle.(how often they want a new phone) At this point in time customers want a new phone every 18-24 months so the handset manufacturers are happy.
Some carriers tend to buy cheaper handsets to lower retention and costs and CPGA This affects churn because the customer blames the carrier for every dropped call or bad battery.
CDMA carriers feel the pressure because of the cost of their handsets. GSM carriers have a price advantage for now. Change to UMTS/HSDPA and you will see those things even out and handsets become a bit more costly because the technology is so expensive.

You really are just a child. You just have to argue about everything. At some point you would be doing yourself a favor to just grow up. People have showed enormous restraint with you this time around to keep out the arguments (when they normally jump right in).

Keep it up here all you want. I will no longer participate with you if you just want to argue for arguments sake.

bashing at me becuase i dont agree with your opinion and yet you are calling me a child and i should grow up? how dare you. everyone has their own opinion on anything so i voice mine. if i dont agree with someone i dont call them names like you and SF and some others on here do. shame on you.

i dont care if you dont participate with me or not. it doesnt make a differnce whatsoever. by the way, this issue was already over when SF(or whoever else i talked to about this issue) and i have already said that we agree to disagree and the conversation stopped. yet you brought it back out of the dead.

so again, shame on you.

I offered a non confrontational opinion explaining why BOTH were important. Your reply was "you're wrong". You asked for opinions and thoughts yet all you do is rip them yourself.

I never bashed your opinion. If you re-read my post carefully I validated your point but included the fact that the big picture is rated as well.

It's getting really, really old.

i am not saying that you bash my opinion, i am talking about your insults to me about my opinion.

exactly, my answer "you are wrong" is just my opinion. if you dont agree that is your opinion.

They why ask for thoughts and opinions if, rather than discuss in an open minded fashion, you are simply going to say "you are wrong" to those with which you disagree?

Whether you like it or not, THAT is acting childish. I didn't call you an ass, or a moron, or anything else. Your behavior was childish. I don't know whether my non-confrontational attitude this time around has thrown you or what but I have INTENTIONALLY refrained from responding to may of your posts just to argue. I have also INTENTIONALLY refrained from typical name calling since our last major discussion was adult and reasonable. I had hoped you (and I for that matter) turned a new leaf.

If you can't understand that your post was childish, pure and simple, I don'...
(continues)

i didnt read your message sorry.

🤭

🤭 right back at ya. 🤣

This is something that I'd never think I'd live to see. Sorry, nextel18, I don't mean to bash. You spend loads of time here, and while we don't always agree, I do appreciate the input that you offer. You've answered a great number of questions in a direct and upfront manner, especially for new folks or folks looking for a direct and upfront answer. But you always have a chip on your shoulder. Didn't think I would ever see you apologize. Maybe I just didn't know you well enough.

thanks for your comments

Everything you said was the very point of Tex's post.

If Cingular continues to sell 20% more new activations (gross adds) than Verizon each quarter, imagine what would happen if they continue to lower their churn rate (as they have been each quarter).

If you know basic arithmetic, losing 1.5% of your customer base isn't going to matter much when you're adding 5 million new users.

Point: Churn is the biggest factor here, and its trending down quarter after quarter for Cingular.

Right. So what is VZW doing that is so much better than Cingular? I realize their service is rated higher - but there has to be more to it. I'm not happy with Cingular's customer service.

I really don't think Verizon is doing much better than Verizon. At least in the actual service, I think its much closer than you may think betwenn the two. There are simply places that Cingular will work when Verizon doesn't, and the other way around. Customer service is Cingular's biggest problem right now, and they know it. Changes are being made left and right to the customer service policies to improve that, and I think its working.

Once Cingular manages their customer service issues in a better manner, churn will drop and they'll be giving Verizon an even harder run for their money.

Thank you for repeating exactly what I said and then saying I missed the point.

And by the way, Cingular is at 2%, not 3%. At a base of 54 million that is a difference of 600,000 thousand customers PER QUARTER.

You're a complete idiot whom thinks he knows it all. Cingular's churn is much higher than 2% on a annualized basis. Thats like saying Texas Wireless sucks everyday, but had one good day. Plus, are you comparing stock prices? VZ and Cingular are both LLC's and are not publicly traded. VZ is Verizon Communications whom is part owner of VZW. AT&T/BellSouth own Cingular(formerely SBC). While it is true that their performance will be reflected somewhat in their owner's stock prices - that's a very poor indicator of the their performance.

Get a clue before you go running your fat mouth.

Do you feel better now?

At least you came up with your own information this time instead of just plagarizing my post.

There is therapy available for the rage you exhibit you know.

You mean correcting your post and I feel better now. But I'm always open to any therapy.

Correcting?

What exactly did you correct? Someone else said the exact same thing. Even on an annualized basis you still overshot their churn rate by close to 1/2%. That is almost 1.2 million customers PER YEAR.

I corrected the stock price section, right? You were WAY off on that one.

My main point is GROSS adds don't mean diddly when you have high churn.

You didn't correct squat. I wasn't off on anything. Why don't you pick up a Rueters, WSJ, Forbes, Business Week or anything else and read about how Verizon is dumping tons of money in HOPES of a long term return. They are doing it in Wireless and doing it in Fiber.

And your main point was covered in my post as an important factor just not the only factor. When your churn drops by over 33% in just 5 quarters that is called PROGRESS. If you didn't want to talk about one quarter why did you mention Verizon's one quarter.

BDGP said:
This is exactly why VZW is much more profitably and is growing at a record pace (based on 2005 4th quarter results).

Hence why others asked why you simply restated my...
(continues)

Why don't you pick an issue of get a clue magazine and you'll see that you're still missing the point by a mile. You're still comparing wireless companies performance based off of their parent companies. HENCE - You're now talking about Fiber investments from Verizon Communications!!! Have I said that you're a complete idiot? If not, let me go ahead and say it again - You're a complete idiot.

You keep thinking Butch, that's what you're good at.

Nice to see you are as educated as the rest of the sheep. If all you want to do is name call that is fine, but I am not going to attempt to prove anything to the ignorant. I think it is past your bedtime.

Butch? Sheep? Ignorant? Someone is getting cranky - I think it may be past your bedtime.

hhmmmm what about cingular's ptt subscribers?

Those are included in the regular numbers, but far as I know Cing doesn't break 'em out separetely for the GP... or if they do, I havnen't bothered to look.

All I can say is, try Google on that one.

I have.. with no luck. I also searched the company intranet with no luck.... maybe I'll have to wait for the 1st qtr results to find out what I want to know.

It is too early to determine what Cingular’s push to talk additions were and I think it is best to give it a quarter so when they report their 1st quarter 2006 earnings I will be looking for the push to talk numbers for you and everyone else.

ok disregard the last message i sent a few min ago lol i'm impatient

lol its ok.

true, i saw it after i posted...

you have any idea what the ptt numbers are?

no... it is too early.