New Upgrade policy....
I liked Cingular SOOO, infinitely, much better when they were the number 2 wireless carrier. "Why?" you ask? I just got off of my daily visit to good ol CSP and guess what I found?
Effective 7/10 Cingular will be adjusting their upgrade policy to include a new factor to determine eligibility. What is that factor? Why it's none other than "Customer Profitability"!!! So now you can actually be denied an upgrade discount even if you're out of contract simply because you don't make the company enough money!!! đ
Granted they claim that this will only affect a small percentage of customers, but what exactly is a "small percentage" when you deal with 54 million + people? I mean just 2% is still over a million people!
May God ha...
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Effective 7/10 Cingular will be adjusting their upgrade policy to include a new factor to determine eligibility. What is that factor? Why it's none other than "Customer Profitability"!!! So now you can actually be denied an upgrade discount even if you're out of contract simply because you don't make the company enough money!!! đ
Granted they claim that this will only affect a small percentage of customers, but what exactly is a "small percentage" when you deal with 54 million + people? I mean just 2% is still over a million people!
May God ha...
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Well if people cant upgrade because of that, and they are out of contract, I am presuming many will take their business elsewhere i.e. Verizon, and when Cingular starts losing customers due to that, it may reverse that policy. Now that they are #1, they are doing exactly what Verizon did when they were #1, and that is pushing the envelope...seeing how much underhandedness they can get away with. As long as it doesn't affect me, I won't complain too much I guess...
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That's exactly why I liked them better @ number 2. None of this gouging the customer crap!
The big problem for these people is that they're probably on older rate plans (quite a few of those in my area) that are actually working for them, but aren't offered anymore by ANY carrier! So thier choices are limited to paying retail cost for thier new phone (that's like saying they've gotta have open heart surgery to most of these people) or sticking with the old phone that's either crappin out on them or doesn't work at all.
This is why I want out of wireless....Man! Even Verizon didn't go this low! đŋ
The big problem for these people is that they're probably on older rate plans (quite a few of those in my area) that are actually working for them, but aren't offered anymore by ANY carrier! So thier choices are limited to paying retail cost for thier new phone (that's like saying they've gotta have open heart surgery to most of these people) or sticking with the old phone that's either crappin out on them or doesn't work at all.
This is why I want out of wireless....Man! Even Verizon didn't go this low! đŋ
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I understand your complaint but you also have to understand a company has to make money. I practically loose money on upgrades of 29.99 plans with the way phone prices are set, and cingular online offers them lower. We're not in buisness to lose money...
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Well stop offering the 29.99 plan. No other carrier had that "profitability" stipulation in the contract, and neither should Cingular...
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I believe this was a refference to upgrades of lower priced plans, aka 29.99 plans, not something i offered but a preexisting account. perhaps if they were willing to move to another plan of higher value then an upgrade would be offered.
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Accounts are graded periodically. Therefore they'd have to be on that higher plan for several months before being eligible. Many of these customers are only looking to upgrade because their phone is dying. What's the use of getting on a higer plan for 6 months in order to get a new phone? Especially when your old rate plan isn't going to be available when you get it?
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Icyhot said:
Well stop offering the 29.99 plan. No other carrier had that "profitability" stipulation in the contract, and neither should Cingular...
What? all carriers do have this "profitability" stipulation. T-Mo is not giving me a good "deal" in Aug when I'm due for an upgrade because I have a $29.99 plan with them. I already called and asked. I am going to bring that line over to Cingular anyway because I don't need T-Mo anymore. As of March 06 I'm able to send text messages to my mom's carrier overseas.
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Believe me I understand that as I've been an agent rep/manager for the last 2 years. My store's lost money doing those upgrades too, but a HUGE part of business is reputation. I'm sure you know that these same people that sit on thier ancient rate plans can also be the loudest people when the yelling starts.
Cingular has over 54 million customers and is adding more each day. If it's really such a small percentage of that customer base which is so unprofitable why bother to even change the policy? One cannot tell me that the company is losing SO much money on keeping these people that it'll offer them no other choice but to pay full retail. Most of these "unprofitable" rate plans don't exist ANYWHERE anymore, so if the customer's happ...
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Cingular has over 54 million customers and is adding more each day. If it's really such a small percentage of that customer base which is so unprofitable why bother to even change the policy? One cannot tell me that the company is losing SO much money on keeping these people that it'll offer them no other choice but to pay full retail. Most of these "unprofitable" rate plans don't exist ANYWHERE anymore, so if the customer's happ...
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I do agree with you on this point. as a company the loss in income would be insignificant but like all buisness prices must go up with time and this would be there way of adjusting for inflation. whether its worth the poor pr or not is there call i guess but personally i don't mind not taking a loss in my gp.
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disturbed1 said:
I'm certainly didn't major in business in college, but I'm by no means ignorant. I simply cannot believe that these people (who are sometimes our most loyal customers) are really costing Cingular that much money.
Most of them have TDMA phones. Yes, it costs us money to keep these customer. A Lot! And you should know this, disturbed1. đ
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Actually in my market, and all of the area formerly covered by BellSouth Mobility, NONE of these people have TDMA phones as the BS DCS network was GSM from the ground up. And you should know THIS, Anxiovert. I've seen 10 year old phones in my store with SIM's in them...that's CERTAINLY not a TDMA phone.
Granted this doesn't hold for the whole country, but seeing as many of Cingular's oldest customers are in the south and southeast it's certainly true for a good percentage of this "small percentage".
One way or another that argument is a moot point seeing as how the TDMA customers have been eligible for upgrade to GSM equipment for years and will continue to be so after the policy change. It's the "unprofitable" GSM customers ...
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Granted this doesn't hold for the whole country, but seeing as many of Cingular's oldest customers are in the south and southeast it's certainly true for a good percentage of this "small percentage".
One way or another that argument is a moot point seeing as how the TDMA customers have been eligible for upgrade to GSM equipment for years and will continue to be so after the policy change. It's the "unprofitable" GSM customers ...
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Aren't tdma the only ones with the $100 razr/slvr rebate right now? criteria being they move to a 39.99 plan. perhaps this is the next step in an attempt to move these plans. customer service would still have the option to do two year contracts with one year pricing as well i would assume.
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Crapbag said:
Aren't tdma the only ones with the $100 razr/slvr rebate right now?
Yes, they keep getting offers like these in order to get them on GSM equipment. We are doing anything possible to get them on GSM by 2007.
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Yes they are! And, yes, I would assume that CS still has that option. But as I said, TDMA cust's have had this option all along. The GSM cust's on $15 and $30 plans are SOL.
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I just won a 30gig video ipod!! now in the mail and on its way. sorry had to tell someone.
This is a ****ty situation and i would be pissed if i were in it. I guess our job as sales reps and such would be to find solutions such as go phones to fit there needs better.
This is a ****ty situation and i would be pissed if i were in it. I guess our job as sales reps and such would be to find solutions such as go phones to fit there needs better.
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ROCK!
Yeah, it's crappy, but frankly I'm tired of the whole thing. I'd just like to go back to being a customer.
Yeah, it's crappy, but frankly I'm tired of the whole thing. I'd just like to go back to being a customer.
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I suppose i would rather take a small loss on a phone than give one more customer an excuse to make a scene in my store and proclaim to the world that i'm a ferverent stream of four letter words.
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Well with policies like this, their churn rate will go up, and they may end up being #2 (or worse yet, #3) again...then maybe they will rething their strategy.
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Is it just me or does this remind you of the same time last year, when we started charging $14.99 for add-a-line's?
Look at how long that lasted...
I think this will be very comparable to that. Testing the waters, and they will be rough.
And cingular will retreat back to shore.
Look at how long that lasted...
I think this will be very comparable to that. Testing the waters, and they will be rough.
And cingular will retreat back to shore.
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disturbed1 said:
That's exactly why I liked them better @ number 2. None of this gouging the customer crap!
This is why I want out of wireless....Man! Even Verizon didn't go this low! đŋ
Do you consider blocking OBEX a silly joke for the Vzw customers?
I think crippling OBEX affected more plp than this. đ
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Good point...almost forgot about that one! I would assume that that situation affected roughly the same number if not more than this one. But which one's more offensive to you as a customer?
You can't transfer files via bluetooth.
or
You MUST pay retail for your upgrade because we don't make enough money off of you.
When it costs me less to pay my cell phone bill than to fill my gas tank...I find the second option to be more offensive.
You can't transfer files via bluetooth.
or
You MUST pay retail for your upgrade because we don't make enough money off of you.
When it costs me less to pay my cell phone bill than to fill my gas tank...I find the second option to be more offensive.
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I think you are probably misinterpreting this new policy. I will do some research about this.
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Research all you like. The job aid clearly states that these customers, while only a small percentage of the whole customer base, will NOT be eligible for discounted equipment.
The scripted responses to questions clearly gives a broken record approach, stating on multiple occasions that all we can offer is the lowest current retail price. It even goes so far as to suggest that ETF's will be waived if the customer has time left on thier contract.
I don't understand your need to be absolutely right in this, but I'm merely reporting the facts as they are presented on Cingular's own Sales Portal. After being in this store for 2 years one would think that I know how to interpret policy changes.
The scripted responses to questions clearly gives a broken record approach, stating on multiple occasions that all we can offer is the lowest current retail price. It even goes so far as to suggest that ETF's will be waived if the customer has time left on thier contract.
I don't understand your need to be absolutely right in this, but I'm merely reporting the facts as they are presented on Cingular's own Sales Portal. After being in this store for 2 years one would think that I know how to interpret policy changes.
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i have never seen a company try so hard to get rid of customers. what a damn joke.
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disturbed1 said:
Good point...almost forgot about that one! I would assume that that situation affected roughly the same number if not more than this one. But which one's more offensive to you as a customer?
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It did affect WAY more customers than anyone could ever imagine. And these were customers who were profitable. Very profitable! Tech Savvy customers are the one you should keep happy; not the ones who only use their phones on the weekends because it's free! đ
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It seems especially rediculas that they can't start a new line with current pricing. No options get sh*t on or move along.
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In refference to tdma, apparently priorly reviewed accounts will no longer be eligable depending on new criteria. this is a little heavy. at this point i would have to say "so long and thanks for all the fish."
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Has anyone even bothered to find out for themselves how many customers it will effect in your market? Our entire region is 250,000 @ most. Of those, how many are actually coming into a store or calling CS to get an upgrade?
I randomly checked about 50 accounts today and could not find one that had lower then a 2.. Most were 3 and 4.
Before getting your thong all bunched up, wait and see how this really effects you.
I randomly checked about 50 accounts today and could not find one that had lower then a 2.. Most were 3 and 4.
Before getting your thong all bunched up, wait and see how this really effects you.
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Look, I see AT LEAST three customers a week with older rate plans. My store is situated at the edge of our city limits near 2 well populated rural areas. It's hard enough tryin to get a phone out of most of these people cause they think that they'll have to change thier rate plan. It's even harder to get features out of them. I actually served a customer on Sat. that had 6,000 rollover min. on a 150 min. plan!!! She wanted an upgrade, but obviously never uses the thing as much as the average person. Under this I'd have had to tell her that she doesn't give us enough money for us to care about her (not what I'd actually say, of course, but what she'd hear)....that's crap no matter how many times you have to say it!!!
Forgive me for...
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Forgive me for...
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But these are exactly the types of customers that I, as a sales rep, hate to deal with.
These old-age customers still want the entire world for free, and get upset when you can't give it to them, just because your store and yourself aren't making enough money on the sale to give away 2 free accessories and discount an additional $40 off a razr.
I get these people in my store all the time, too. And I never give them 100% because they just won't bite on anything. They're the most tightwadded people there are.
These old-age customers still want the entire world for free, and get upset when you can't give it to them, just because your store and yourself aren't making enough money on the sale to give away 2 free accessories and discount an additional $40 off a razr.
I get these people in my store all the time, too. And I never give them 100% because they just won't bite on anything. They're the most tightwadded people there are.
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Your reasoning for not giving 100% as a salesperson is your own, but frankly you're missing out on some opportunities. Not all of the people to whom I'm referring are elderly. Some merely aren't aware of what they have or simply don't see the benefit of certain services. If you can show the benefit of SMS to one cheap mom, or get someone to use MEdia Net instead of 411 on a regular basis, thereby increasing thier ARPU then you're not only helping the company, but yourself as well when the commission check comes.
I'm a tightwad myself, but I see the benefit of these services in my everyday life and therefore I am willing to pay for their use.
I'm a tightwad myself, but I see the benefit of these services in my everyday life and therefore I am willing to pay for their use.
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The policy does not say people with old plans cannot upgrade. It says customers with a Live Value Revenue score of '1' cannot upgrade.. Many factors are used to determine the score. Not just what plan they are on and how many rollover minutes they have.
It sounds like the CSP posting was not as clear as the ARSM, Operations, conference call notes.
disturbed1 - all these customers you are talking about.. Check the score, not the plan, and get back to us.
It sounds like the CSP posting was not as clear as the ARSM, Operations, conference call notes.
disturbed1 - all these customers you are talking about.. Check the score, not the plan, and get back to us.
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6000 rollover minutes on a 150 minute plan? I think you are trying to exaggerate and it is hurting your argument.
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No, seriously this woman literally had 6,000 rollovers on a 150 min plan. I am not by any means exaggerating. The simple fact for this particular customer is that she uses the phone so little that sometimes whole months rollover without using a single minute and for whatever reason they're not expiring as per current policy.
I see how it would sound like exaggeration, but I assure you that it's not. This person is merely a prime example of the customer base I'm talking about. She relies on her phone for emergency purposes and for quick communications when she's away from her home or office. Cingular wouldn't call her profitable, but she's still in need of the service.
I see how it would sound like exaggeration, but I assure you that it's not. This person is merely a prime example of the customer base I'm talking about. She relies on her phone for emergency purposes and for quick communications when she's away from her home or office. Cingular wouldn't call her profitable, but she's still in need of the service.
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So, if she really never uses it why don't you recommend PAYG. Service is only $8.33 a month if she buys $25 refill cards every 90 days. She is also eligible to get a PAYG handset (that is subsidized by Cingular) when she first activates service. I can guarantee that is much cheaper than what she pays now (she has to be on at least a $39.99 plan to have rollover) and you now have offered a solution that saves her money in the long run and saves her money on the phone she needs now.
Rather than immediately looking at the negative with any situation I say look for solutions. If someone is happy with their $19.99 plan with 50 minutes (and no rollover) they should be fine with a PAYG plan with $25 for 100 minutes that last 90 days and a di...
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Rather than immediately looking at the negative with any situation I say look for solutions. If someone is happy with their $19.99 plan with 50 minutes (and no rollover) they should be fine with a PAYG plan with $25 for 100 minutes that last 90 days and a di...
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Very good point, Tex. You always seem to have those.
And like you said, it truly is all about presentation.
And like you said, it truly is all about presentation.
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I'm kinda insulted that you'd think that I wouldn't offer that as a solution. In this particular case, her plan is about $25 a month (this is a REALLY old HOME plan that despite being lower than $39.99 has rollover) and while pre-paid certainly is cheaper for her she's one of those rare people who just prefers to have a bill every month (weird as that may seem).
Combine that with the fact that I can't offer her a pre-subsidized PAYG phone (my company chooses not to carry them at thier subsidy prices, a z300 for example is $135 here đŋ ) for cheaper then an upgrade is the next logical option if I want the business (which I do).
This particular customer is not the issue however, merely an example.
Combine that with the fact that I can't offer her a pre-subsidized PAYG phone (my company chooses not to carry them at thier subsidy prices, a z300 for example is $135 here đŋ ) for cheaper then an upgrade is the next logical option if I want the business (which I do).
This particular customer is not the issue however, merely an example.
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Don't get insulted, but also don't look at this as a negative.
You just made your own example. You could easily show her how she could save plenty on her monthly service but SHE wants to keep that plan. Fine, but if you show her ways to save and she doesn't like them CINGULAR'S reputation is not harmed nor are we saying we don't care about your business. What we are saying is you have many options. One is you can choose to keep what you have and choose to pay the higher price.
Bottom line, too many reps (including yourself on this one) choose to look at this as a negative rather than accepting that change happens and there are always positive, cost effective solutions.
You just made your own example. You could easily show her how she could save plenty on her monthly service but SHE wants to keep that plan. Fine, but if you show her ways to save and she doesn't like them CINGULAR'S reputation is not harmed nor are we saying we don't care about your business. What we are saying is you have many options. One is you can choose to keep what you have and choose to pay the higher price.
Bottom line, too many reps (including yourself on this one) choose to look at this as a negative rather than accepting that change happens and there are always positive, cost effective solutions.
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How long would you have a roommate living with you that pays you $19.99 a month for rent; but costs you $100+ a month to keep him/her living with you?
It's like having a roommate living with you who eats all your food and makes your power bill go higher than what he/she pays you a month. You either raise their monthly payment or he/she gotZ to go!
It's sad but it's business.
It's like having a roommate living with you who eats all your food and makes your power bill go higher than what he/she pays you a month. You either raise their monthly payment or he/she gotZ to go!
It's sad but it's business.
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I think your analogy there was WAY extreme. You cant compare that to 54 million customers. Sheesh........
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Probably, but this is what it all comes down to. Oh, and I'm not referring to the 57M customers, but to the few percentage that still has the $9.99, $14.99 calling plans that belong to whatever carrier Cingular bought years ago.
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That is a bit extreme of an analogy....and frankly people have those situations quite a bit...they're called children. đ
I certainly see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong. But again I say that business is about reputation as well as profit in that you can't gain profit without a good reputation. When you start denying people something that's been the status quo for SO long it doesn't reflect well on the company as a whole.
Not to mention if one of Cingular's overall goals is to reduce churn this is certainly not a way to go about it.
I'm sorry, but considering the percentage of customers we're talking about here is supposedly so tiny it certainly stands to reason that the majority balances the minority in this case. ...
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I certainly see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong. But again I say that business is about reputation as well as profit in that you can't gain profit without a good reputation. When you start denying people something that's been the status quo for SO long it doesn't reflect well on the company as a whole.
Not to mention if one of Cingular's overall goals is to reduce churn this is certainly not a way to go about it.
I'm sorry, but considering the percentage of customers we're talking about here is supposedly so tiny it certainly stands to reason that the majority balances the minority in this case. ...
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disturbed1 said:
When you do that, no matter how you say it, it rings in the customer's ears as "we don't care about your business".
I completely disagree. It is ALL about presentation and explaining options.
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I agree too. It's all about how you introduce it to the customer. I remember when the Rollover policy was changed and everyone thought it was a HUGE mistake and all.
Until this day I haven't had a customer who wants to cancel due to this. Some are annoyed or decide to keep their current plan. But none has canceled on me due to it.
*knocking on wood*
Until this day I haven't had a customer who wants to cancel due to this. Some are annoyed or decide to keep their current plan. But none has canceled on me due to it.
*knocking on wood*
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I'm not in the business to fill the corporate pockets, while I end up with all the stress of yelling customers. I'm not in the business of sacrificing my sanity, ending up in the nut house so they can benefit and end up on a yacht in Tahiti.
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Maybe you folks need to re-evaluate your life's path and/or the place you work if you have so many customers getting upset at you that it threatens your sanity.
I have worked all over the western half of this country in many diverse markets and the % of upset customers is incredibly small compared with the % of customers I help and gain satisfation of a job well done.
And bottom line, until you have the sack to stake your own claim and open your own business you will ALWAYS be lining the pockets of someone above you.
I have worked all over the western half of this country in many diverse markets and the % of upset customers is incredibly small compared with the % of customers I help and gain satisfation of a job well done.
And bottom line, until you have the sack to stake your own claim and open your own business you will ALWAYS be lining the pockets of someone above you.
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1. Out west, theres no one out there to start.
2. I do not at any point carry frustration from customer interations out of the door with me. Point being, my post is out of frustration; I will thank you not to assume from me blowing off steam, that I can't do my job.
3. Starting a business takes alot of work and money; I've been working on this scince after college, about four years.
2. I do not at any point carry frustration from customer interations out of the door with me. Point being, my post is out of frustration; I will thank you not to assume from me blowing off steam, that I can't do my job.
3. Starting a business takes alot of work and money; I've been working on this scince after college, about four years.
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Starting a business takes sack and determination.
As far as the first two, I can make no sense out of what you said.
As far as the first two, I can make no sense out of what you said.
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Point for 1. there is none.
Point for 2. I disagree whit this decision and am stating my view. Your response seemed to assume that due to the customers reaction I would not be able to handle the stress and literally go crazy.
Point 2a. Look up exaggeration
Point 2b. I believe it will be stressful, more so in the fact that we are left to explain this, and not the ones who made this happen.
Point for 2. I disagree whit this decision and am stating my view. Your response seemed to assume that due to the customers reaction I would not be able to handle the stress and literally go crazy.
Point 2a. Look up exaggeration
Point 2b. I believe it will be stressful, more so in the fact that we are left to explain this, and not the ones who made this happen.
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i should be eligable for an upgrade every single day. đ
my bill before taxes let along after is extreme. đŋ
my bill before taxes let along after is extreme. đŋ
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So why is it such a bad thing for customers to at least pay cost (everyday upgrade, no commitment, etc.), NOT RETAIL, for a new handset if they decide they wish to keep their cheap rate plan?
Consumers make the choice. You can keep that $29.99 nation 250 plan you love or up your plan to $39.99 to get a new phone for a subsidy.
Consumers make the choice. You can keep that $29.99 nation 250 plan you love or up your plan to $39.99 to get a new phone for a subsidy.
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That would be fine.
All I'm saying with ANY of this is that it will hurt the company's reputation. If the policy MUST be changed then make it so that those ancient plans are no longer an option to keep in order to get a subsidy. As it stands they'll actually have to raise their ARPU prior to getting a new handset in order to qualify.
Requiring a change at the time of a new contract signing (upgrade) is virtually guaranteeing an increase in profitability, and much more preferable than saying that since they don't give us enough money that they'll not be eligible for a new phone at subsidy until they start forking over more.
All I'm saying with ANY of this is that it will hurt the company's reputation. If the policy MUST be changed then make it so that those ancient plans are no longer an option to keep in order to get a subsidy. As it stands they'll actually have to raise their ARPU prior to getting a new handset in order to qualify.
Requiring a change at the time of a new contract signing (upgrade) is virtually guaranteeing an increase in profitability, and much more preferable than saying that since they don't give us enough money that they'll not be eligible for a new phone at subsidy until they start forking over more.
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I would be willing to bet that is an option. I have seen many mailers directed to low plan customers offering an extra discount on an upgrade (our market has the RAZR with a $100 MIR instead of just $50) for moving up to the $39.99 plan.
Or as I stated, if they just want a cheap plan then talk to then about PAYG or PYP.
Or as I stated, if they just want a cheap plan then talk to then about PAYG or PYP.
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đ˛ This new policy should be interesting from a business stand point especially since there are still alot of grandfathered rate plans out there. I'm not saying that this is a good idea or a bad one because you can make an arguement either way but I've actually been wondering when Cingular was going to try something to move some of the older rate plan customers to the newer, more "profitable" plan we have. Luckily for me I get more people asking about buying retail price than upgrading anyway.
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If you read the policy closely it does not say anything about your plan determining if you are proffitable or not. A person on a 29.99 rate plan that only uses 10 minutes a month is still a profitable customer because it only cost cingular cents per minute to proccess those few calls and they are receiving 30 dollars a month to do so. Cingular makes more money on that plan then they would on most of the 100 dollar unlimmited plans that are out there.
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