i am not braggin, i am just stating.

cingular is very impressive. i feel bad for tmobile now since they only have 16 million customers.

what do you think tmobile can do so that it will be in a niche market to attract customers and do you think there will be a merger with tmobile? (i am scared that tmobile if they dont get a niche or a merger would go bye)

Do you not realize that T-Mobile is one of the largest wireless carriers in the world? Verizon or Cingular or practically any other American carrier would be more likely to 'go bye' (not that I think they will). Granted, T-Mobile USA is small in comparison, but it is growing very fast. I've even heard some industry analysts predict that it will eclipse Sprint/Nextel in the next few years for the #3 spot due to complications with the merger and T-Mobile's expanded coverage through numerous roaming agreements that are now going into effect. In short, they don't need a niche, they're doing just fine as is.

i know tmobile and DT are very strong, but i am talking about in the united states not worldwide.

"I've even heard some industry analysts predict that it will eclipse Sprint/Nextel in the next few years for the #3 spot due to complications with the merger "

thats funny. that wont happen.



tmobile has been having problems with coverage in many areas actually.

do you know what a niche is? they need one to survive. nextel has one which is catering to business customers, gov, and public safety with push to talk. with only 16 million customers tmobile should do the same. find a niche in the marketplace to serve the customers or else they would be facing a lot of problems.

nextel18 said:


thats funny. that wont happen.

.

Why? Just saying that doesn't mean anything. I'm a 3rd party dealer, so whether T-Mobile is #3 or #4 doesn't effect me personally - I'm just repeating what I've heard some reputable analysts and insiders say.

yea, but i know plenty of analysts and insiders too. they say that nextel/sprint should be very strong with their spectrum and things like that.

So does that mean you will leave Cingular, and start bragging about Sprint/Nextel being tops and to leave Cingular and T-Mobile to come to them?

i dont have cingular in the first place. look all i was asking and talking about was about the TREO 650. i dont want to get into these wars with people. i dont like it.

i am trying to ask you a truthful and honest question.

So, if you don't have Cingular, why are you bragging and protecting them, and trying to put down T-Mobile?

i will protect anyone who talks about another carrier without any facts to prove it.

i am not putting down tmobile, i am just stating facts and my opinions and asking questions to see why you like tmobile instead of the other carriers? (cingular mostly)

I like Cingular just fine! (In fact I SELL Cingular). But I also think that T-Mobile is a better company in many ways (better customer service, less "coroporate America" crap). And I really think they will do well in the American market. I don't think they'll get as big as Verizon or Cingular any time soon, but they may just give Sprint a run for it's money. Nothing's for sure though - it'll interesting to watch.

yea, it will. the problem is tmobile doesnt have a fast data network and wont have umts/hsdpa or flarion for a while. when tmobile will have high speed data the other carriers will already be having those services launched nationwide and gaining subs.

they wont challenge sprint/nextel. tmobile is too small to attack nextel/sprint's clients especially when most of them are very loyal high paying subscribers who love their data services and ptt.

nextel18 said:
yea, it will. the problem is tmobile doesnt have a fast data network and wont have umts/hsdpa or flarion for a while. when tmobile will have high speed data the other carriers will already be having those services launched nationwide and gaining subs.

they wont challenge sprint/nextel. tmobile is too small to attack nextel/sprint's clients especially when most of them are very loyal high paying subscribers who love their data services and ptt.

Newsflash, Chuckie. Tmobile won't ever be using Flarion. 😁

nextel18 said:
they wont challenge sprint/nextel. tmobile is too small to attack nextel/sprint's clients especially when most of them are very loyal high paying subscribers who love their data services and ptt.

Funny then, how nearly all of my port-ins to T-Mobile are from Sprint. I will admit though that I have never ported a number over from Nextel. I don't doubt that the Nextel customer base will remain fairly stable, but I think a lot of Sprint customers may get frustrated and leave. T-Mobile is a logical choice to them because their price plans are fairly inexpensive (relatively speaking), and more importantly they have fairly lenient credit standards, like Sprint.

All I have to say is this...
TMobile has 17.7 mil customers. Over the past 2 years they have averaged 1 mil extra customers per quarter.
When Sprint/Nextel tries to combine IDEN and CDMA networks I'm gonna laugh! Totally imcompatible systems. They are either going to screw nextel subs or sprint subs.
Tmobile has its niche anyway...
GET MORE BABY! More minutes, more features...LESS PRICE!

Yep!

"When Sprint/Nextel tries to combine IDEN and CDMA networks I'm gonna laugh! Totally imcompatible systems. They are either going to screw nextel subs or sprint subs. "

not true. again dont say anything you dont know.

may be true, but sprint recorded a great quarter 1 this year. data arpu went up, and subs went up, while churn went down. usually people wont leave if you have a low churn and still keep on getting good adds for the quarter.

people want sprint for their fair and flex plans and for their data services which is the best in the industry. hence highiest data arpu in the land.

nextel18 said:
and things like that.

Thank you. Could you be more vague?

We are talking about merging two very different types of technology after all. And iDEN is proprietary technology at that!

they arent totally different. i am not sure if you are aware but nextel will have contiguous spectrum in the 800mhz band. it is very easy after that to "transform" into cdma. in fact nextel is going to have half of their cell sites on the cdma network. this will be a smooth transition my friend.

Do you even understand how CDMA works? It uses spread spectrum process gain and binary Walsh codes. Your message is broken up, coded and then spread across the spectrum you're using, stacked orthogonally to the signals from the other people using the same spectrum. TDMA (which iDEN uses) assigns you a specific time slot on a specific channel. There's a HUGE difference. For CDMA the signal is unstacked by using the dot product of the binary Walsh matrix that you are using. With TDMA, there's no need to do this since you can just ignore the signals in the other time slots. Once again, completely different.

You'll probably post back that your 'people' told you that they're no really that different - but my answer is - math doesn't lie...
(continues)

"You'll probably post back that your 'people' told you that they're no really that different - "

and RF engineers dont lie either. 🙂

nextel18 said:

and RF engineers dont lie either. 🙂

That's a very silly thing to say! 🙂 Are they incapable of lying?

If you've completed college level Calculus - you are capable of understanding the mathematics behind TDMA and CDMA (CDMA is more complicated in my opinion). It's very straightforward. If you understand the math - you'll understand that they are very different. 😁

whatever the CTO says and the RF people say i will belive them 100 percent. nextel has the best engineers in the industry and i will belive them.

it is going to be easier then you think it will be. if it wasnt they wouldnt be already planning and having half of nextel's iden towers onto the cdma network by 2007.

anyway, i dont have to listen to you, becuase i would listen to them over you. 🙂

You don't have to listen to me. Get a college calculus text book, read the sections on orthogonality and Walsh matrices, then read a white paper on how CDMA works. It would be interesting reading, if nothing else.

yea, thats true, but i am saying i would tend to listen to those people though.

nextel18 said:
this will be a smooth transition my friend.

Says the all-knowing, tower consulting, independently wealthy playboy. Sorry, we're all taking your comments with the largest grain of salt in recorded history.

nextel18 said:
i know tmobile and DT are very strong, but i am talking about in the united states not worldwide.

"I've even heard some industry analysts predict that it will eclipse Sprint/Nextel in the next few years for the #3 spot due to complications with the merger "

thats funny. that wont happen.



tmobile has been having problems with coverage in many areas actually.

do you know what a niche is? they need one to survive. nextel has one which is catering to business customers, gov, and public safety with push to talk. with only 16 million customers tmobile should do the same. find a niche in the marketplace to serve the customers or else they would be facing a lot of problems.

You bette...
(continues)

oh it will. 1.5 seconds so far they are trying to get it under that. plus with the data functionality that you can do with nextel and sprint it will be a big hit. for now there will be dual handsets and a gatway between the ptt with iden and cdma. should be fun.

Read what I wrote to that crazzy Cingular, fool.

elihuspeaks said:
Do you not realize that T-Mobile is one of the largest wireless carriers in the world? Verizon or Cingular or practically any other American carrier would be more likely to 'go bye' (not that I think they will). Granted, T-Mobile USA is small in comparison, but it is growing very fast. I've even heard some industry analysts predict that it will eclipse Sprint/Nextel in the next few years for the #3 spot due to complications with the merger and T-Mobile's expanded coverage through numerous roaming agreements that are now going into effect. In short, they don't need a niche, they're doing just fine as is.

Yeah! Take your niche and do something offensive with it! LOL.

T-Mobile is BIGGER than Cingular, by a LONG shot. Let me refresh you memory. T-Mobile is an INTERNATIONAL company. We have service in GERMANY, EUROPE, and other place. If, you add up T-Mobile's subscriber numbers, WE ARE MUCH BIGGER THAN CINGULAR AND AT&T COMBINED! And NO, there will not be a merger, with CINGULAR, that would create a monopoly, which the FCC would not approve. And, I personally think, that T-Mobile doesn't need to merger is croocular, to survive in the USA. We are supported by T-Mobile International, and we are bringing in most of their customer. I am a T-Mobile LOYAL customer. Even my friends that had AT&T was forced to switch to Cingular, and they don't like them, because they lost 150 minutes a month, due to the merger.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT INTERNATIONALLY!!! i am talking about domestically. (ie in the usa.)

WE are T-Mobile as a WHOLE! COME TO T-Mobile and GET MORE! 😛 🤣

i am just asking you, what is tmobile's niche?

I have 1 question. If you love Cingular so much, why is your screenname "nextel18"?

why cant you answer my question? it doesnt matter if my screen name is nextel. why isnt your name tmobile? its pointless.

my question to you is what is tmobile's niche? (in the usa that is)

Call them up and ask them. Then call up Cingular, and ask them what is their Niche.

Why does T-Mobile need a "niche"? Why can't we just build a customer base with good plans and customer service and expanding coverage?

all carriers need a niche. if you want to attract those customers you need to get a niche. basically what do you do better then the others. i belive tmobile is very good with their rate plans and should continue to offer all kinds of services to try to take market share. (if they dont it would be trouble)

International may become a big thing in the future. Think about this - the fact that you can 'roam' throughout the US with no additional fees is a major selling point for Cingular and T-Mobile. What if you could roam internationally on T-Mobile's network (which by the way is incredible over in Europe) with NO additional charges? Right now there are regulations in place that prevent companies from doing this, but my understanding is that some of these agreements are due to expire in the near future, and then . . .

interesting but my questions is, what niche does tmobile have?

I guess their 'niche' would be customers that like good customer service, no hassle about roaming charges or long distance, the ability to roam internationally throughout most of the world, people that need to get their phones unlocked for international travel, people that want low-priced data packages and wireless internet service, the ability to edit their accounts online, to change their rate plan without getting stuck in another two-year contract, to have simple billing and no 'mystery' charges, to not have to pay $5 to pay a bill at a direct store, to have their phone replaced promptly and with no hassle if it's defective, people that want some of the lowest rates on cell phone plans . . . I could go on, but I guess that people that wan...
(continues)

niche is actually one thing.

like nextel caters to businesses and corp accounts with push to talk. etc..

so try again, please.

T-Mobile's niche is getting people to Get More features, MINUTES, and EXCELLENT customer service, for less money than they have to pay out with Cingular.

ok we will say get more features and mins as their niche, but who do they cater to? (ie businesses, consumers etc..) (basically whats their core business)

😡 😛

😁 🙂

🙄

i like these faces. lol

And as of this point, This crazy debate is over. You stick with Nextel, and I will stick with T-mobile. That way we will both be happy!

hahhaha. no i was just trying to help that other guy to chose what he should do. tmobile doesnt have what he wanted, but cingular does. thats all.

Learn how to spell.

lol..

😛

I understand what a niche is. My point is that T-Mobile does not cater to a niche market, nor do they need to. They offer a wide range of services and features that appeal to a broad range of people. For instance, the Sidekick II is pretty popular in the youth market right now ($20 a month for unlimited IM, text, e-mail, and wireless internet access seems pretty reasonable to me). On the opposite end of the spectrum, I get a lot of elderly customer that get the $20 plan because all that they really want is a phone for emergency use (a lot of other carriers don't offer any plans with that low of a MRC). Because they stock GSM phones, a lot of their mid-level models have bluetooth, which is appealing to a lot of business user. They are a...
(continues)

I am getting tired of that guy.

of course they do. with only 16 million customers they better find a niche to survive. just like nextel has been surviving with their niche.

every carrier has a niche.

Only 16 million? That's still a pretty big number (Also, they have a huge customer base internationally). Also, if Nextel was doing so well with their niche, why did they merge with Sprint? 😁

Good point!

16 million is good, however, not when companies have 42.9, 45 and 50 million customers.

why did nextel merge? becuase they had to, they are a public traded company and there was an offer. the offer was good, nextel took it. why not merge? when you only have 16 million customers that nextel has you want to merge with someone who has more so you can stay alive in this business.

why did cingular merge with att wireless? to gain more access, more spectrum etc.. same with nextel and sprint.

elihuspeaks said:
Only 16 million? That's still a pretty big number (Also, they have a huge customer base internationally). Also, if Nextel was doing so well with their niche, why did they merge with Sprint? 😁

Oh, I'll answer that one: Because Nextel couldn't possibly compete on an equal footing with the big dogs in regards to offering reliable cellular communications. iDen is dead. It's been dead for a while now. As a technology overall, it's a bastard stepchild...it was never meant for making cellular calls. THAT's why Nextel got with the program and Sprint.

nextel18 said:
every carrier has a niche.

What is Sprint's "niche"? What is Cingular's "niche"? What is Verizen's "niche"?

i belive sprint's niche would be the data services.

cingular's would be m2m.

verizon's would be consumers and offering them the best services possible. (thats a tough one becuase they are strong all around)

nextel18 said:
i belive sprint's niche would be the data services.

cingular's would be m2m.

verizon's would be consumers and offering them the best services possible. (thats a tough one becuase they are strong all around)

Cingular's niche is M2M? I thought Verizen had that first? And they're nearly as big.

What is it about Sprint's data services that make it their "niche"?

I thought a niche was one good thing, according to you, so by your own definition, the "niche" for Verizen doesn't work.

yea cingular's niche is m2m. they have the biggest and they are only going to keep growing.

verizon had it first but its difficult to say what verizon's niche is becuase they are big and they keep on getting 1.5 million subs per quarter. they arent really struggling in any area.

sprint's data services makes them their niche as well as their wholesale business becuase they are the leader in those areas. hence niche.

yes, thats a fair last statment with verizon.

nextel18 said:
niche is actually one thing.

like nextel caters to businesses and corp accounts with push to talk. etc..

so try again, please.

Okay. Here's one: Tmobile serves their customers better than Nextel. How's that?

you sure about that?

nextel has a highier arpu and lower churn then tmobile does. also, nextel has the highiest lifetime revenue per user at 4500 dollars which is 25 percent highier then the next provider which isnt tmobile.

so that statment of yours is false.

I prefer T-Mobile.

My goodness you jump off topic so easily. This discussion has nothing to do with the original question.

Now to answer the original question.

Nextel18 is correct that Cingular has the TREO 650, and it is offered below cost with an agreement. You also can use the higher speed EDGE data while on Cingular whereas T-Mobile is still only using GPRS (someone correct me if I am wrong on that one, haven't shopped them in a while since all their stores closed here). If you REALLY want a TREO 650 on T-Mobile you can buy one unlocked from the PalmOne website (www.palmone.com) for about $700. It will work with any GSM provider in the world.

"My goodness you jump off topic so easily. This discussion has nothing to do with the original question."

i tried to stay on topic while the others changed. you saw that i talked about the TREO 650 with cingular etc.. (like you mentioned just now)

Please explain to me then, preferably off-line so we don't further corrupt this poor dude's thread, why you felt the need to post the merger and niche topics on HIS thread. If you want to discuss and debate those issues start your own thread.

again, i told dp21 about the whole cingular situation(with the phone question and tmobile) then others derailed the conversation. thats what happened.

If I am not mistaken, EDGE is in select markets.

nextel18 said:
i am not braggin, i am just stating.

cingular is very impressive. i feel bad for tmobile now since they only have 16 million customers.

what do you think tmobile can do so that it will be in a niche market to attract customers and do you think there will be a merger with tmobile? (i am scared that tmobile if they dont get a niche or a merger would go bye)

So wait. Over in the Cingular forum you state the company sucks. But over here you think Cingular is impressive? Either take a dump or get off the pot, you can't have it both ways.

And what the hell is wrong with 16 million customers? Please explain your "logic" behind this statement.

i dont state that they are bad in the cingular board. i am saying they need to improve in a few areas. YES against tmobile cingular is a better or a more impressive company.

16 million subscribers wont last you a long time in this business.

dp21,

I am a T-Mobile Corporatw Sales Rep. As it stands the Treo WON'T be available on T-Mobile for sometime. From what I hear from our Treo Rep, we are waiting on a unit that has Push Email capabilities (ie Blackberry).

In the meantime the differences are most aesthetic. If you really want a 650 I recommend purchasing one unlocked from Ebay (make sure it is New In Box NIB) and then activating with T-Mobile.

Good Luck.

As far as a T-Mobile niche...it's always been "Get More" we give more minutes, more features, more customer service, and more for your money. T-Mobile has been the fastest growing cellular company for 4 out of the last 6 years (Verizon has taken the spot the last two). We were Deutsch Telekom's first profitable wi...
(continues)

very good point, and good analysis of tmobile's niche. you got it!!