T-Mobile possible outcomes based on actual FACTS.
This is sad. The possible outcomes that have been tossed onto this forum. One said "Its a buy-out, not merger" There is no difference, you know who you are-guy who said this. One said "you cant have a GSM monopoly" Well, the DOJ does not consider the medium in witch the service is delivered, they consider who/what controls the market. Other-wise Nextel, and their iDEN would be an Lol, out-law biker of wireless. Sorry, but when I read that I cried, I was laughing so hard...cant have a GSM monop... good gosh you must have a pea brain. Also people have said VZ may loose "Deep pocketed Voda" Fault! They (VZ) are possibly the most expensive carrier in USA. Where is that "Financial backing" step aside CS rep! You are a CS rep because of one reason...
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Sorry, here are the .pdf's I used for this discussion.
http://www.bellsouth.com/investor/pdf/1q05p_slides.pdf »
http://www.t-mobile.com/company/investors/financial_ ... »
http://www.bellsouth.com/investor/pdf/1q05p_slides.pdf »
http://www.t-mobile.com/company/investors/financial_ ... »
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1. No one cares where you are going to school.
2. Just because someone didn't go to an ivy league school does not mean that they don't have the capacity to make forward thinking business decisions.
3. I hope some Harvard professor rips you a new one, belittles you in front of all your peers and puts you in your place you pompous jackass!!!
2. Just because someone didn't go to an ivy league school does not mean that they don't have the capacity to make forward thinking business decisions.
3. I hope some Harvard professor rips you a new one, belittles you in front of all your peers and puts you in your place you pompous jackass!!!
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Cingular couldn't buy out T-Mobile if they wanted to, they took on massive debts to purchase it. Not only that, they had to divest spectrum in several markets and would have to give up most of the T-Mobile spectrum if they did purchase them. Therefore, there is no point in discussing a Cingular buyout.
Here is an article about 3G:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8379761/ »
Sprint is GOING to launch 3G, and Cingular has 3G in 6 markets (big deal) and will have it in 16 markets by the end of this year if all goes well. That is far behind Verizon who has 3G technology in more than 50 markets. Cingualar and Sprint are not in a very good position regarding 3G deployment either.
Here is an article about 3G:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8379761/ »
Sprint is GOING to launch 3G, and Cingular has 3G in 6 markets (big deal) and will have it in 16 markets by the end of this year if all goes well. That is far behind Verizon who has 3G technology in more than 50 markets. Cingualar and Sprint are not in a very good position regarding 3G deployment either.
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Hey "insider" regardless of what school you may or may not be attending you're still a total douche (that's right, douche) for posting your pompus rant that you state is "educating" the rest of us. You are an insult to the Ivy community the way you make yourself sound. (I don't need to state what school I attended b/c I realize posting on something like this is a waste of time/energy and don't want to insult my fellow alumni) bottom line, t-mobile needs to make major improvements to be successful in the future, only time will tell, not the "insiders" on this board.
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Wow, your post so reeks of arrogance I could not even finish. Here's a hint for the future leaders of America. If you honestly believe that making snide and condescending remarks about others is a positive way to increase your self esteem while lowering that of others, it does not. Part of the business world is knowing how to coax the intricacies and egos of others. You my friend are in for a long life of delivering mail to higher executives who know how to play the game. The moral is: You were such a jerk I could not begin to care what you were saying. You may have made an amazingly excellent point. You may have even just explained to all of us how change the evolution of life itself, but again you lost me at, "Sorry, but when I read that I...
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Thurston,
First I'd like to say thanks for the very interesting post. It's sad to see that your information evoked such a negative emotional response from so many people. I don't completely agree with all of your points, but I see a certain degree of validity in them nonetheless.
I think you are right about the fact that T-Mobile has fallen behind on the 3G race. The interesting thing is that (in my experience) most customers don't seem to even notice. I sell both Cingular and T-Mobile, and even though the data speeds are better, most customers who are interested primarily in data will steer away from the higher priced Cingular plans and opt for the more competitively priced T-Mobile ones.
After all - who wants to pay $45-80/m...
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First I'd like to say thanks for the very interesting post. It's sad to see that your information evoked such a negative emotional response from so many people. I don't completely agree with all of your points, but I see a certain degree of validity in them nonetheless.
I think you are right about the fact that T-Mobile has fallen behind on the 3G race. The interesting thing is that (in my experience) most customers don't seem to even notice. I sell both Cingular and T-Mobile, and even though the data speeds are better, most customers who are interested primarily in data will steer away from the higher priced Cingular plans and opt for the more competitively priced T-Mobile ones.
After all - who wants to pay $45-80/m...
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Matt,
Good point. About AWE sinking boat/TMO sinking- the thing is TMO must buy spectrum, and actually launch 3G from ground up. AWS already had a 3G plan, so AWE had more than monetary value. TMO is simply needing a network upgrade, to oeven consider 3G. However, if Arun Sarin (VODA CEO) did choose to leave VZ, in exchange for TMO he would have to leave VZ- most profitable wireless carrier in USA. in Exchange for 103 million a year. AWS at the time was 3rd in subs, and 2nd in profit, so AWS was attractive to buyers like Cingular, and Voda. By the way, I am amazed at how fast Cingular was able to take AWS from nunber one in CC, to dead last. TMO is now number 2 in CC. TMO could do much better, but by cutting its prices so much, it has remo...
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Good point. About AWE sinking boat/TMO sinking- the thing is TMO must buy spectrum, and actually launch 3G from ground up. AWS already had a 3G plan, so AWE had more than monetary value. TMO is simply needing a network upgrade, to oeven consider 3G. However, if Arun Sarin (VODA CEO) did choose to leave VZ, in exchange for TMO he would have to leave VZ- most profitable wireless carrier in USA. in Exchange for 103 million a year. AWS at the time was 3rd in subs, and 2nd in profit, so AWS was attractive to buyers like Cingular, and Voda. By the way, I am amazed at how fast Cingular was able to take AWS from nunber one in CC, to dead last. TMO is now number 2 in CC. TMO could do much better, but by cutting its prices so much, it has remo...
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Thank you for the compliment.
I think you are right about broadband wireless. Eventually, it will become more and more 'necessary' for common applications on cell phones and mobile devices. It's not right now, so no one really notices, and T-Mobile can continue with the good growth that it has exhibited in the past.
I think that was the whole point though of the people who were speculating that Deutsche Telekom would try to sell T-Mobile rather than upgrading their network - that DT realizes that broadband wireless internet will be perceived as 'necessary' in the eyes of the consumer, and at that point if they have not made the needed expensive upgrades to their network that they will be in trouble. Not wanting to invest a large amo...
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I think you are right about broadband wireless. Eventually, it will become more and more 'necessary' for common applications on cell phones and mobile devices. It's not right now, so no one really notices, and T-Mobile can continue with the good growth that it has exhibited in the past.
I think that was the whole point though of the people who were speculating that Deutsche Telekom would try to sell T-Mobile rather than upgrading their network - that DT realizes that broadband wireless internet will be perceived as 'necessary' in the eyes of the consumer, and at that point if they have not made the needed expensive upgrades to their network that they will be in trouble. Not wanting to invest a large amo...
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True. They would control 100% of a US carrier. But the money made in the US would be cut into 1/5's. And this i s a game of money. I think a beter solution of TM is to keep it, upgrade it, promote it. DT needs to keep vodafone away from the largest economy in the world. DT and Voda are rivals in EU, this is sort of a proxy battle field for them. I think TM will continue to be a DT arm.
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I have another question for you all, what do you think the possibility would be of another company outside the US possibly bidding. I noticed that the only 2 companies really mentioned are VodaFone & a cable companies, has anyone thought about NTT DoCoMo? They already have deployed 3G. Just wondering ... Or another company outside of the US.
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Perhaps you would have gotten more responses such as this if you hadn't insulted people and their intelligence in your earlier post jacka$$
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Looks like Nextel18 has another handle so "somebody else" will actually agree with him. 🙄
Hi Adam.
Hi Adam.
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Yhe only comapny that will by T-Mobile is a cable company that wants to bundle services. I think soem big cable company that offers local phone service will buy T-Mobile. I agree that Vodaphone will not buy T-mobile and give up it's stake in Verizon. If they really wanted to do that they would have bought AT&T wireless.
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i agree with him and you too.
no reason for voda to buy out tmobile, that is a struggling company with nothing going for them instead of keeping a company like verizon wireless. who cares about gsm? who cares? its about profits in the wireless industry and verizon wireless is that. nextel/sprint is also but if they, voda, had to either keep their stake in verizon wireless or buy tmobile and sell their stake in vzw. my decision would be that they would keep it.
like u said.. if they wanted a gsm company they would have already bought tmobile or att wireless a long time ago. (or earlier)
no reason for voda to buy out tmobile, that is a struggling company with nothing going for them instead of keeping a company like verizon wireless. who cares about gsm? who cares? its about profits in the wireless industry and verizon wireless is that. nextel/sprint is also but if they, voda, had to either keep their stake in verizon wireless or buy tmobile and sell their stake in vzw. my decision would be that they would keep it.
like u said.. if they wanted a gsm company they would have already bought tmobile or att wireless a long time ago. (or earlier)
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Actually Vodafone tried to buy AT&T Wireless. They actually placed the winning bid but Cingular made a higher priced side deal with AT&T to win them over.
This is a post from an editor of this website, Eric Lin.
https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »
Clearly Vodafone is ready and willing to ditch Verizon for total ownership of a GSM company.
This is a post from an editor of this website, Eric Lin.
https://www.phonescoop.com/news/discuss.php?fm=m&ff= ... »
Clearly Vodafone is ready and willing to ditch Verizon for total ownership of a GSM company.
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Okay insider I will reply.
After looking over the links to the PDF's you provided I can say while I agree with your assesment of some of the comments posted about this issue, I think you need some extra assignment on your financial analysis. To use your preferred metric of net income, T-Mo comes out quite well by "only making" $103 million in the quarter as compared to the $240 million Net Loss of Cingular for the quarter. You would have done much better by comparing it to Verizon who had Net Income of $1.2 billion.
Another point in which you are truly off the mark is the "$35 billion in unaudited debt". That is the total of all liabilities and equity in the company. The real debt figure is somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 bill...
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After looking over the links to the PDF's you provided I can say while I agree with your assesment of some of the comments posted about this issue, I think you need some extra assignment on your financial analysis. To use your preferred metric of net income, T-Mo comes out quite well by "only making" $103 million in the quarter as compared to the $240 million Net Loss of Cingular for the quarter. You would have done much better by comparing it to Verizon who had Net Income of $1.2 billion.
Another point in which you are truly off the mark is the "$35 billion in unaudited debt". That is the total of all liabilities and equity in the company. The real debt figure is somewhere in the neighborhood of $10 bill...
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That first quarter loss was less than we at Cingular actulally predicted.
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Marcus,
Please don't think I was trying to point out that Cingular was doing badly, I wasn't. I think that Cingular is actually doing quite well considering all of the projects (specifically, consolidation and IT infrastructure related) that they are curently working on and the financial resources required to undertake those projects. The point of my post was to point out just a few of the flaws and inaccuracies of Insiders "analysis" of the T-Mo financial situation as well his his assesment that T-Mo is a sinking ship. 🙂
Please don't think I was trying to point out that Cingular was doing badly, I wasn't. I think that Cingular is actually doing quite well considering all of the projects (specifically, consolidation and IT infrastructure related) that they are curently working on and the financial resources required to undertake those projects. The point of my post was to point out just a few of the flaws and inaccuracies of Insiders "analysis" of the T-Mo financial situation as well his his assesment that T-Mo is a sinking ship. 🙂
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I know I am just stating that Cingular knew how tough this merger was going to be. the customer care issues come from integrating two different customer care departments.
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Marcus I would agree, im sure that is a very tough task. When I was trying to leave Cingular early and I called 6 times to get my early termination fee over a 2 month period, I got six, thats right, 6 different amounts. First 240.00, then 100.00, then 150.00, today I was told 40.00, then 80.00 at the store, then 30-50.00 depending on time of month. Go Figure. I would say Cingular has a lot on its plate but im sure it will do well, unfortunatly not many carriers do well where I live because of the Canadian signal, only Verizon and T-Mobile are able to keep their phones from going to ROGERS Wireless.
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AT&T reps are not used to dealing with Cingular's policy and procedures. Those are the big complainers in the Cingular forum the former AT&T reps. Blue reps credited customers for things that are now violations of policy on the Cingular side.
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While you do cite some FACTS (are those different from "facts" somehow?) you demonstrate no ability to meaningfully analyze them.
1) Much of your conversation is focused on Net Income, not an especially relevant metric, especially for a fast growing company in a capital intensive industry.
2) Last I checked it was the WSJ (not TMo CC reps) who started the rumor that Vodafone was a prime candidate in any potential takeover. Perhaps you should be writing them a letter to express your views on the issue?
Now for some things that don't appear to be "FACTS."
1) As someone else mentioned, the $35B debt figure seems to have been pulled from thin air. The actual published figure for Y04 is $11B in long term liabilities.
2) How exact...
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1) Much of your conversation is focused on Net Income, not an especially relevant metric, especially for a fast growing company in a capital intensive industry.
2) Last I checked it was the WSJ (not TMo CC reps) who started the rumor that Vodafone was a prime candidate in any potential takeover. Perhaps you should be writing them a letter to express your views on the issue?
Now for some things that don't appear to be "FACTS."
1) As someone else mentioned, the $35B debt figure seems to have been pulled from thin air. The actual published figure for Y04 is $11B in long term liabilities.
2) How exact...
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outsideAG said:
I think there's a show on MTV about this. Ashton Kutcher is in it, but for some reason I can't seem to remember what it's called. 🤣
Your rebuttal was quite good, well-written and logically, pretty tight. However, the above statement was the only part of the post that really made me laugh.
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